jetblue EMB-190 pay??!!!

[TonyC]

Edited almost 8 hours later? How'd THAT happen?!?!?

 

[G4G5]

Lowcur,

Care to coment? The post is over on USAviation, the poster claims to be a B6 A320 pilot who quotes the source as a B6 VP

"No firm facts here but I am hearing through fairly reliable sources that the Embraer is not coming to fruition as originally advertised. The 170 is already coming up short on performance from the predicted numbers. What I am hearing is that the fuselage is not large enough to carry the antennae dome for the live TV system and there was no overhead aisle space provided for the life rafts. The logistics effect is that the range has been reduced considerably with utilization of the bins for overwater equipment therefore reducing overhead storage, a different antennae must be designed and incorporated. Apparently there was no calculation for overwater operations in the original plans. This all adds up to a reduction in range of over 600NM from what I understand. Thus, making the E190 unable to serve the cities in the Carribean and Central America that JB wanted to operate to from JFK. I have also heard that the production is around 6 months behind promised delivery dates. Whether this is enough for the carrier to back off on their orders and let the leasing companies take the first 100 orders or justify taking on a different aircraft remains to be seen. "

 

[lowecur]

Lowcur,

Care to coment? The post is over on USAviation, the poster claims to be a B6 A320 pilot who quotes the source as a B6 VP

"No firm facts here but I am hearing through fairly reliable sources that the Embraer is not coming to fruition as originally advertised. The 170 is already coming up short on performance from the predicted numbers. What I am hearing is that the fuselage is not large enough to carry the antennae dome for the live TV system and there was no overhead aisle space provided for the life rafts. The logistics effect is that the range has been reduced considerably with utilization of the bins for overwater equipment therefore reducing overhead storage, a different antennae must be designed and incorporated. Apparently there was no calculation for overwater operations in the original plans. This all adds up to a reduction in range of over 600NM from what I understand. Thus, making the E190 unable to serve the cities in the Carribean and Central America that JB wanted to operate to from JFK. I have also heard that the production is around 6 months behind promised delivery dates. Whether this is enough for the carrier to back off on their orders and let the leasing companies take the first 100 orders or justify taking on a different aircraft remains to be seen. "

I'll take it over to the Yahoo board and see what comes back. Haven't heard any of this. If it's true, this will obviously hurt those Carribean and Central American Plans. They would have to set aside a certain number of a/c for these trips, and probably schedule them out of FLL. As far as the antenna, I would think the engineers can make adjustments, but that is just speculation for now. Losing 600nm is ridiculous.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Based on the airframe weight & design, NG engines, and Avionics, the 170 certified out at 2000nm (100 under original estimate). They then adjusted the 190's estimate downward to I believe 2200nm. It has already been discussed that the realistic operational range of the 190 will be about 1700-1800nm, taking into consideration reserve requirements. You will never get a realistic operational range on any of these a/c until probably 12 months after initial delivery. It will take that long to fine tune the a/c.

The fact the author brought up the 170 in the paragraph makes you wonder about the credibility. Also, the 6 month behind promised delivery dates is a bit too premature at this point. The production facilities are in place as they have produced 3 a/c I believe, and B6 will only be receiving 6 or 7 in 2005. Failure to get the a/c certified by next June should be the only obstacle.

B6 is not going to back off on their orders and take a different a/c. That's just pure speculation on the author's part, and adds another minus to his credibility.

 

[lowecur]

Lowcur,

Care to coment? The post is over on USAviation, the poster claims to be a B6 A320 pilot who quotes the source as a B6 VP

"No firm facts here but I am hearing through fairly reliable sources that the Embraer is not coming to fruition as originally advertised. The 170 is already coming up short on performance from the predicted numbers. What I am hearing is that the fuselage is not large enough to carry the antennae dome for the live TV system and there was no overhead aisle space provided for the life rafts. The logistics effect is that the range has been reduced considerably with utilization of the bins for overwater equipment therefore reducing overhead storage, a different antennae must be designed and incorporated. Apparently there was no calculation for overwater operations in the original plans. This all adds up to a reduction in range of over 600NM from what I understand. Thus, making the E190 unable to serve the cities in the Carribean and Central America that JB wanted to operate to from JFK. I have also heard that the production is around 6 months behind promised delivery dates. Whether this is enough for the carrier to back off on their orders and let the leasing companies take the first 100 orders or justify taking on a different aircraft remains to be seen. "

Well, here's a reply from someone from Brazil. Can't vouch for his credibility, but I think he pretty much said what I did.

I did hear a rumor that ERJ will be announcing an ER version in the near future for both the 170 & 190. It will give both a/c transcon range. This will undoubtably require larger fuel storage and more powerful and efficient engines. My guess is GE is working to that end as I speak. I would look for B6 to have the option to upgrade as these ER's become available.

Also, with Bombardier looking into bldg a competing a/c, you can be assured the E-series will be extended to the 135 pax size to compete with them. Bombardier is hoping for certification by 2010, barring no problems. I will bet ERJ will have one certified in the 135 pax range by 2009. I wonder what this will do to the 737 pay scale? In any case, it will give present and future 190 pilots an easier flow thru to a better pay scale that will be offered on the 210

[size=-1]This post has 1 recommendation[/size] [size=-1]Ignore this User | Report Abuse[/size] Re: 190 problems regarding Jetblue?
by: mrocktor (M/SP/Brazil) 07/26/04 10:28 am
Msg: 1670 of 1670
All of his "issues" are bullshat. I will not deconstruct his arguments one by one because I'd have to disclose company information.

With an ounce of common sense anyone can realize that no matter how many rafts you cram into an overhead bin there is no way you are going to reduce a plane's range from 2200nm to 1600nm.


Posted as a reply to: Msg 1667 by lowecur

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Let's see the MAA guys & gals are getting $58 for the 170. Skywest is getting $58 for anything up to 99 seats. I think Republic is in the same area up to 100 seats. Did B6 really have a choice? These rates refect the "going rate" based on todays market.

What will be interesting is how DL, AMR, and SWA will handle this? Arpy and Greenjeans have been waiting to see what B6 will do, and now they will be able to sit down with the pilot groups and see who will fly the 190. My guess is the rates for both DL and AMR will be about 10% higher than B6. I believe the plane will be flown by mainline in both cases. They don't have a choice in the matter, they will have to buy the plane and fly it cheaply.

Now this will really put pressure on WN.

The 190 will absolutely destroy WN when B6 begins to match up on routes in probably 2007. This plane will be used against WN out west between OAK and LAS at first, and they will spider web the routes out of LAS as they grow. These routes will also put tremendous pressure on AWA's bid to survive.

It's gonna be a great future for Embraer.

C'mon. The 190 will destroy WN? Have you forgotten Airtran's 717's? They are pretty efficient and they will do what it takes to keep their market. I believe SWA will too. No, the 190 will put pressure on the hub and spoke model. The smaller markets are the one's making regionals good money. WN vs. JB vs. Airtran will not be very smart. Remember that JB is modeled after WN and WN can play a pretty mean game.

And don't bet that JB won't see a union. These low pay rates assure it.

 

[lowecur]

C'mon. The 190 will destroy WN? That is a rather strong embelishment. Let me rephrase that to the 190 will have a decided advantage over the 737 at WN. I believe ergonomically and economically, the 190 will win the day against both the 737NG of WN, and the 717 at FL. Have you forgotten Airtran's 717's? They are pretty efficient and they will do what it takes to keep their market. I believe SWA will too. No, the 190 will put pressure on the hub and spoke model. The smaller markets are the one's making regionals good money. WN vs. JB vs. Airtran will not be very smart. Remember that JB is modeled after WN and WN can play a pretty mean game. Yeah I know, but by 2007 the 190 will need to spread it's wings beyond the legacy hub and spoke market. It's just a matter of the twain shall meet eventually, and by the end of 2007 Jetblue will have over 40 E-jets in the skys. This could all change if WN acquires the E-jet or if they take a 15-20% haircut on their next contract. Just my opinion.

And don't bet that JB won't see a union. These low pay rates assure it. Entirely possible.

.....