JetBlue Bigwigs and the 190

[a320drivr]

Rumor has it from a MX that the bigwigs were in Brazil on Thursday the 2nd and told Embraer to either fix this POS or we are canceling our orders and you can take back the ones we already have. This airplane could hurt JB to the nenth degree if its reliability stays where it is now.

 

[h25b]

If JetBlue is really that vulnerable they should not have bet the company's success on the reliability of such a young airframe. I have no doubt that the airplane will get straightened out but whether or not JetBlue can tolerate the time it takes to do so is the question.

 

[buttercup]

Rumor has it from a MX that the bigwigs were in Brazil on Thursday the 2nd and told Embraer to either fix this POS or we are canceling our orders and you can take back the ones we already have. This airplane could hurt JB to the nenth degree if its reliability stays where it is now.

What are the most common issues the aircraft is experiencing?

 

[Heavy Set]

I suppose ordering A318s and A319s might have been more appropriate with the common training, etc. But hindsight is always 20/20... I bet Embraer made a lot of promises that have been difficult to keep. The E170 had tremendous problems when MDA started to use them a year ago or so...

I suppose Jet Blue could always acquire Frontier and then start to incorporate the A318/319 into their fleet...

 

[JBFlyer]

Rumor has it from a MX that the bigwigs were in Brazil on Thursday the 2nd and told Embraer to either fix this POS or we are canceling our orders and you can take back the ones we already have. This airplane could hurt JB to the nenth degree if its reliability stays where it is now.

Nothing like a "good rumor" to get a thread going. It never ceases to amaze me where some of this stuff comes from. Whether it's true or not, though, I have no idea. I'd tend to think this would be a bit on the extreme side.

 

[Daddy]

One big problem with the 318's is that it IS the same as a 320 basically... making it much harder to justify the lower payrates which help them keep CASM down

 

[General Lee]

Why didn't JB just get the A318? It too has 100 seats, and would have made training and reliability much better. Crazy. I bet the Embraer deal was great, but they could have used that against Airbus to try to get a good deal too on the A318.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[LarryinTN]

How do the operating costs compare on the A318 vs EMB190?

 

[jetbluedog]

The A-318 is known for being to heavy & too expensive to operate on a seat/mile basis, much like the 737-600. Neither program has been a success. The EMB choice has much better operating economics from what I understand.

Since the fleet is big enough to overcome those issues, the far superior fuel burn, lighter weight, construction more for short haul, lower aquisition cost (base price and launch customer discount) and B6's pilot rules make switching a 1 time only thing, the 190 was the better choice.


Please remember that A318 and 736 a strongly shorted versions of much larger aircraft. For that reason, they use a structure build to bring a heavy load in the air. So they get very heavy, a stretched regional jet will be much lighter and more economic.

However, the shortened design also has advantages:

higher take-off performance (especially hot and high) and longer range
better pax comfort due to larger cabin cross section
fleet commonality with larger a/c. This applies specifically to carriers with many 150 seater and a small number of 100-seaters like AF
maybe also the capability to haul freight, at least the A318 (I don't know it exactly)
the larger wingspan results in aerodynamical advantages, this can partially compensate the higher weight

You Decide what's important:

E-Jet:

Per Pax Width: 22.1"
Cabin Height: 6.6'
Floor to Bin: 4.75'

737:

Per Pax Width: 19.9"
Cabin Height: 7.2'
Floor to Overhead: 5.2'
A-318:

Per Pax Width: 21.3"
Cabin Height: 7.3'
Floor to Overhead: 5.3'


An all-coach seating configuration is an
integral part of JetBlue's successful business model. The Boeing 717 with all-coach seating would
need to be configured to 120 seats, which would be too big and uneconomical for us to profitably
serve small- and mid-sized markets.

In addition, the Embraer 190 has a range of up to 2,100 nautical miles, while the Boeing 717 can
only fly 1,700 nautical miles, significantly limiting the markets that we could operate with our new
fleet.

I'd argue that one of the most significant reasons for choosing the E190 over the A318 is crew costs. Because the A318 is common-rated with the A320, jetBlue would likely have to pay A318 pilots the same rates as A320 pilots. By choosing a different type, jetBlue can pay lower rates on the E190 and save around 30% on pilot costs. Also, with roughly 120 seats, an A318 would require three flight attendants under FAR requirements. Equipped with 100 seats, the E190 only requires two. Add to that lower fuel burn and lower acquisition cost to make the E190 the obvious winner. The fact that the A318 is only available with CFM engines clearly works against maintenance commonality benefits, too.

 

[ilinipilot]

Republic got our latest 170 with the number 3 Hydraulic system deferred. It was released into service and then got stuck in SLC for 1 day b/c a sensor was bad. If I was the CEO I would have told them to take this POS back or give us another one. I mean come on, I highly doubt Boeing will say to UAL here is your 777 sorry the 3 hydraulic system doesnt work.


Our UAL birds seem to be working well, but it takes about a year to get the bugs out it seems like