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[bluesideup340]

Either I am not making sense or you have a problem understanding....

But its me right?

Rez this is what you said:

“And what happens when foreign investment dries up? Are we going to try for inter galatic investment?”

Explain this nonsense – Intergalactic investment
Judging by you statement you are clearly off the reservation.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez this is what you said:

“And what happens when foreign investment dries up? Are we going to try for inter galatic investment?”

Explain this nonsense – Intergalactic investment
Judging by you statement you are clearly off the reservation.

Why is the US airline industry not worthy of domestic investment? Is there not enough wealth in this country?

Perhaps the business model of US airlines is not sound enough.... historically, has the industry made money?

So iff the model is flawed... then foreign investment is a band aid.. and what happens when foreign investment dries up? Where does the next level of investment comes from? Hence the outer space comment.....

 

[bluesideup340]

Because ALPA doesn't magically stop market forces like an XMen movie? ...

What you are saying ALPA can do absolutely nothing because they are helpless dealing with market forces and economic realities. That admission alone makes me wanting to sign up?

Would the whipsawing occur if the carrier on the opposite of the saw was not ALPA? ...

Great you answer a question with a question. Fact is whipsawing happens right now amongst ALPA. So what do we need ALPA for if they can not deal with the problem within the association?
But in your own words above: “ALPA can not do anything about the Market forces”

Hence, what are they good for.

Rez I asked the question
“Why don’t you give me an example of ALPA leverage and success preventing whipsawing in the last 30 years?”
And you responded:

rather reducing it... recall what I just said about market forces. Companies can't control market forces... except perhaps a little with Wal Mart... but we really don't want a company controlling the market do we? ...

If neither ALPA nor companies have control over market forces, who then has control? The Free Masons?

Rez you need to read you own arguments before you post. Here are your own words.
“... recall what I just said about market forces. Companies can't control market forces” and not even a half sentence later you ask - “but we really don't want a company controlling the market do we?”

If in you own words companies do not control the market forces then they really do not control the market. Please what are you talking about? Again you are not making any sense.

I never said he uses fear... he uses a consulting firm to piss on you and tell you its raining... and use smile and get wet.....

If there is no third party there and Bargers door is open... why are there compalints at all.... why aren't things great...

According to you companies do not control the market place. Following you logic we can not blame anyone. Furthermore, if things are so great with ALPA on the property why are so many ALPA pilots so unhappy with their Union?

With a stroke of a pen Barger can provide industry standard... but he doesn't... why? If a union was on property he could state he has to deal with a third party... things take time....

I know why... but you tell me...

For starters with our new contract we meet and exceed the average compensation amongst our peers including ALPA carriers. Secondly, we accomplish this in record time, measured in months and not years, through collaboration. And thirdly, we are not done yet.

No, based on historical presedence... It is a possibility.... I am not saying LH will do that... but it could happen... obviously you are willing to bet your career, or job rather, on LH not taking your job...

In the absence of any business case you can present to support you claim you site historical precedence.
Would you mind share the particular historical precedence with us?

Good buisness might be jB pilots losing flying. Might not. Good luck...

By your logic from above in which you established that neither companies nor ALPA control the market forces. We just have to wait and see.

No, I am replying to your snide comment about how ALPA nadled age 60.

What is nadled?

What do you call someone who rejects their rights to be respesented? Smart? Intelligent?

Not necessarily but what about calling the person “free”. We are all free to make good and bad choices in life. ALPA is a bad choice.

Market forces... you want protection or not? Nothing is guranteed..

Rez in the beginning of this exchange you boldly proclaimed ALPA has not influence when it comes to market forces and now, in the same response, you are selling ALPA as protection from Market forces.

Are you for real?

So you think ALPA's standing observer status at the UN's ICAO is not good? ..

Give it a rest Rez. ALPA advertises to be the Union for Pilots and as such they have failed. They Lobbying efforts are not making about for all their failures in the last 30 years.

Good luck.... recall... all you have is denial.... what else can you do but justify that your job at jb is in control by someone else and you are totally at the whim of the market... let's put it this way.... as a jb pilot... you are a football player who has chosen to play the game without a helmet, pads, gear, etc...

Again you use the market force to sell me ALPA protection, which according to YOU ALPA has no influence on. Great analogy though, of course I would like to have a helmet, pads, gear etc to play football. But by closer inspection of the football gear sold by ALPA it turn out to be made out of papier-mâché.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What you are saying ALPA can do absolutely nothing because they are helpless dealing with market forces and economic realities. That admission alone makes me wanting to sign up?

No that is what you believe, not what I said.... there is a difference..

Great you answer a question with a question. Fact is whipsawing happens right now amongst ALPA. So what do we need ALPA for if they can not deal with the problem within the association?
But in your own words above: “ALPA can not do anything about the Market forces”

So ALPA should reject representing pilot groups because they don't want to whipsaw?

What can JB pilots do about market forces?


Hence, what are they good for.

Rez I asked the question
“Why don’t you give me an example of ALPA leverage and success preventing whipsawing in the last 30 years?”
And you responded:

If neither ALPA nor companies have control over market forces, who then has control? The Free Masons?

Rez you need to read you own arguments before you post. Here are your own words.
“... recall what I just said about market forces. Companies can't control market forces” and not even a half sentence later you ask - “but we really don't want a company controlling the market do we?”

If in you own words companies do not control the market forces then they really do not control the market. Please what are you talking about? Again you are not making any sense.

Why don't you tell me... who control the free market? The globalization of it all.....??

According to you companies do not control the market place. Following you logic we can not blame anyone. Furthermore, if things are so great with ALPA on the property why are so many ALPA pilots so unhappy with their Union?

Who do you blame for TWA going under? Pan Am? For USAIR and their mergers? ALPA?

For starters with our new contract we meet and exceed the average compensation amongst our peers including ALPA carriers. Secondly, we accomplish this in record time, measured in months and not years, through collaboration. And thirdly, we are not done yet.

No you don't. First off, you have no contract....

Second, your hourly pay might be in line but your benefits are not.... you have the same benefits as a ramper.

In the absence of any business case you can present to support you claim you site historical precedence.
Would you mind share the particular historical precedence with us?

The airline industry has lost more money than it has made. Try Google.

Also look at the martime industry.... what was good for them might be good for us...

By your logic from above in which you established that neither companies nor ALPA control the market forces. We just have to wait and see.

Good luck.....

What is nadled?

You aren't worth spell check....

Not necessarily but what about calling the person “free”. We are all free to make good and bad choices in life. ALPA is a bad choice.

Why?

Rez in the beginning of this exchange you boldly proclaimed ALPA has not influence when it comes to market forces and now, in the same response, you are selling ALPA as protection from Market forces.

Are you for real?

Yes.... I said ALPA doesn't control market forces as much as bitter pilots want it too.... however, ALPA or unions actually can offer protection from market forces....

Give it a rest Rez. ALPA advertises to be the Union for Pilots and as such they have failed. They Lobbying efforts are not making about for all their failures in the last 30 years.

It is easy to say they have failed... how?

Again you use the market force to sell me ALPA protection, which according to YOU ALPA has no influence on. Great analogy though, of course I would like to have a helmet, pads, gear etc to play football. But by closer inspection of the football gear sold by ALPA it turn out to be made out of papier-mâché.

It seems you have an ALPA story... let's hear it..... no really... do tell.... tell us how ALPA screwed you over......

 

[Blue Dude]

Geez, guys, get a room.

 

[bluesideup340]

Rez
Thanks for the hours of great entertainment.
Stay safe, keep the stick on the ice, and make sure the blueside it up.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

On Thursday and Friday of last week, ALPA representatives met with the fact-finding team that has been tasked by the European Commission with exploring airline labor concerns arising out of the ongoing U.S.–European Union (EU) air service negotiations.
On Thursday, First Vice-President Capt. Paul Rice and ALPA staff attorney Russ Bailey joined representatives of the AFL-CIO’s Transportation Trades Department for an exchange with the European team. On Friday, Rice and Bailey were joined by Capt. Rick Dominguez (DAL), chairman of ALPA’s International Affairs Committee, and Ana McAhron-Schulz, director of ALPA’s Economics and Financial Analysis Department, for another meeting with the team.
The two parties discussed the possible effects of the already completed “first stage” air services agreement, and the proposals being made by the EU in the ongoing “second stage” negotiations. In particular, ALPA and the European team talked about the labor relations challenges caused by the fragmented labor law structure in the EU, and the possible effects on airline workers of the EU’s proposal to eliminate restrictions on foreign ownership and control of airlines.
The European team consisted of Claude Chêne, the former chief-of-staff of the European Commission’s Aviation Directorate, Dan Edwards from the Commission’s Aviation Directorate staff, and Louise Ragher from the European Commission offices in Washington, D.C. The U.S.–EU air service negotiations are scheduled to resume in October in Washington.