Jetblue and American?

[Smarta$$]

Critical thinking skills escaping you again, huh?

Look at my post... read it SLOWLY... repeat it a couple of times. Maybe you will understand it.

It says... a new union drive is more than 30 days away. If it takes more 30 days to START a drive... how long until a vote? 60 days... 90 days? I don't know. But... I do know that 3 months is a long time to be humming around with your junk flapping in the wind like we don't have a care in the world.

Do I think AA can grab us if we don't want them too? No. Can we get tied up if jetBlue is willing? Oh, heck yeah! B6 "Pravda" has been very aggressive about putting new articles to rest in the past. Yet... this time... nothing but crickets so far.

What do I REALLY think is going to happen? I think it has been made very apparent that we are a target for AA after they emerge. I think both Delta and Southwest have a vested interest in making sure that AA doesn't get us. Where we wind up... I have no clue. But... I'm 100% sure that we are involved in the chess game.

Ya know... if you would ratchet down the smarta$$ attitude (see what I did right there) you might be able to have a productive, adult conversation sometime. Until then... just go get the walk around while I continue to sip on my coffee.

Typical, another 150-250k JetBlue captain bitching about his lot in life...

 

[Lake Alice]

Typical, another 150-250k JetBlue captain bitching about his lot in life...

If he/she wants to bitch about their lot in life who cares provided they are helping work towards a CBA.


Once the announcement is made regarding the T/E it will be too late for us. We will be stuck fighting for our futures based on the 20 or so PEA's floating around.

 

[Smarta$$]

I think you mean IF the announcement is made.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I think you mean IF the announcement is made.

No. It's when.

 

[Smarta$$]

No. It's when.

OK. When will that be? Or are you just going to make an impossibly vague and ominous statement that can never be dis-proven because time goes on indefinitely? Oh, just a little longer, and my prediction will come true.......

 

[Lake Alice]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

OK. When? If JetBlue being stand alone after 12 years isn't enough, how many years will it take for you to stop saying "any day now, its about to happen, its only a matter of when"....

Just more vague open ended noncommittal fear mongering.

I get it. Its just about to happen! Any day now! Can't be much longer! Its just a matter of when, not if!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

OK. When? If JetBlue being stand alone after 12 years isn't enough, how many years will it take for you to stop saying "any day now, its about to happen, its only a matter of when"....

Just more vague open ended noncommittal fear mongering.

I get it. Its just about to happen! Any day now! Can't be much longer! Its just a matter of when, not if!

I dont usually agree with the way lake presents his arguments(but agree with most of is principles) but this one was spot on with no emotion. If you think we arent in serious play your naive. If anything is on a timeline its just that our future will be far more clear in 2 years.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

SO, we are SOLELY independant because Joels hands are deep in our pockets? (may be true) Question is, is that now no longer true? I mean, why are we in play NOW if we are solely independant because Joel has his hands in our pocket? What is true now that wasn't true 12 months ago, or 2 months ago?

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

So being swallowed up is dependant on a good offer? Why has it not happened for 12 years? What has changed now?

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Most likely, NOTHING will protect us. No silver bullet to protect pilots flying for an airline with NO future, NO benefits, NO pay, No future career progression, NO retirements, NO heavy internationl aircraft... We have a ********************ty job at a ********************ty company. We don't deserve a fair integration right?

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

Really? I guess all of those things are new? None of that was true last year? 6 months ago? 2 years ago?

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

I appreciate your tone in this post Lake. It is refreshing to have an intelligent non-hyperventilating post to reply to. And I agree that a merger is possible, but these rumors have been around for years. The reasons you submit for why this is imminent, have also been true for years. Nothing is different now except American is desperate...

We have little or nothing to gain by hooking ourself to that sinking ship, and there is no reason to believe that American will be a force after bankrupty. They still will have ********************ty customer service and bitter employees. They will just be able to sell a ********************ty product cheaper than now, that won't be enough....

Again, we have to be willing to merge, and the reasons you give for us being willing, have been true for years.

 

[Lake Alice]

Actually none of us have to be willing to merge. As this is a business only the board needs to be willing. It can be argued Barger has a personal stake in Jetblue but those who make the final decision have only a financial one. The price hasn't been right in the past but the stakes are higher now than ever.

 

[BeachBummer]

OK. When? If JetBlue being stand alone after 12 years isn't enough, how many years will it take for you to stop saying "any day now, its about to happen, its only a matter of when"....

Just more vague open ended noncommittal fear mongering.

I get it. Its just about to happen! Any day now! Can't be much longer! Its just a matter of when, not if!

12... whole years?

All these airlines were on thier own too, until they weren't. It's not fear mongering, it's history. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, truely hope it doesn't. But don't pretend it can't or won't.

1. Air West
2. 1968 - Pacific Air Lines (originally Southwest Airways), Bonanza Air Lines, and West Coast Airlines merged to form Air West

• 1970 - Howard Hughes purchased Air West and renamed it Hughes Airwest

1. AirTran Airways
2. 1997 - Bought by ValuJet Airlines, kept the AirTran name

• 2010 - Bought by Southwest Airlines, will retain the Southwest name.

1. Alaska Airlines
2. 1986 - Acquired Jet America Airlines.

• 1986 - Acquired Horizon Air, which continues to operate as a separate airline.

1. America West Airlines
   • 2005 - Acquired bankrupt US Airways, retaining the US Airways name.

1. American Airlines
2. 1971 - Acquired Trans Caribbean Airways

• 1987 - Acquired Air California
• 1997 - Acquired Reno Air
• 2001 - Acquired TWA

1. Continental Airlines
2. - Texas International

• - Frontier
• - People Express
• - New York Air
• 2010-2012 - Merged with United Airlines. Overtook Delta as the world's largest airline by passenger traffic in 2011, kept United name.

1. Delta Air Lines
2. 1924 - Started as Huff Daland Dusters

• 1928 - Huff Daland Dusters was purchased by C.E. Woolman and renamed Delta Air Service after the Mississippi Delta
• 1953 - Purchased the Chicago and Southern Air Lines, and flew under the name Delta C&S for the next two years
• 1972 - Purchased Northeast Airlines
• 1984 - Established the Delta Connection (ASA, Comair, Skywest, ...)
• 1987 - Merged with Western Airlines
• 1991 - Purchase of Pan Am's European routes, and acquired Pan Am's shuttle, forming what is today Delta Shuttle
• 1996 - Delta Express began service, ended November 2003
• 2003 - Song began service, ended May 2006
• 2008-2010 - Merged with Northwest Airlines. Became the world's largest carrier by passenger traffic in 2008, kept Delta name

1. Eastern Airlines
   • 1991 -ceased operation while in bankruptcy

1. Hughes Airwest
2. 1970 - Howard Hughes purchased Air West and renamed it Hughes Airwest

• 1980 - Republic Airlines bought out Hughes Airwest

1. Northwest Airlines
2. 1916 - Founded by Col. Lewis Patenaude, under the name Northwest Airways

• 1927 - Began flying passengers
• 1949 - With its new routes to the far east, re-branded itself as Northwest Orient Airlines
• 1986 - Purchased Republic Airlines, and dropped the word Orient from its brand name
• 2008-2010 - Merged with Delta. Became world's largest airline by passenger traffic in 2008 under the Delta name.

1. Ozark Airlines
   • 1986 - Purchased by TWA

1. Pan Am
2. 1979 - Merged with National Airlines

• 1991 - Delta Air Lines purchased Pan Am's European routes, and acquired Pan Am's Shuttle

1. Republic Airlines
2. 1979 - Formed by the merger of North Central Airlines and Southern Airways

• 1980 - Bought out Hughes Airwest
• 1986 - Northwest purchased Republic Airlines

1. Republic Airways Holdings
2. 2005 - Acquired Shuttle America.

• 2009 - Acquired Midwest Airlines.
• 2009 - Acquired Frontier Airlines.

1. SkyWest Airlines
   • - Acquired Atlantic Southeast Airlines

1. Southwest Airlines
2. 1985 - Acquired Muse Air

• 1993 - Acquired Morris Air
• 2008 - Acquired certain assets of bankrupt ATA Airlines
• 2010 - Acquired AirTran and will retain name Southwest Airlines

1. Trans World Airlines
2. 1986 - Purchased Ozark Airlines

• 2001 - American Airlines purchased TWA, retained name American Airlines

1. United Airlines
2. - Merged with Capital

• 2010-2012 - Merged with Continental Airlines. Surpassed Delta as the world's largest carrier by passenger traffic. Kept United name

1. US Airways
2. - Started as All American Aviation Company, renamed All American Airlines and then Allegheny Airlines

• - Purchased Lake Central Airlines and Mohawk Airlines
• - Changed name to USAir
• - Purchased Pacific Southwest Airlines and Piedmont Airlines
• - Changed name to US Airways
• 2005 - Bought out by America West, keeping the US Airways brand

1. Western Airlines
2. 1925 - First incorporated as Western Air Express by Harris Hanshue

• 1926 - Western's first flight took place
• 1928 - Reincorporated as Western Air Express Corp.
• 1930 - Purchased Standard Airlines (subsidiary of Aero Corp. of Ca. founded in 1926). WAE with Fokker aircraft merged with Transcontinental Air Transport to form TWA.
• 1934 - Western Air Express broke off from TWA and briefly changed its name to General Air Lines, returning to the name Western Air Express after several months
• 1941 - Western Air Express changed its name to Western Air Lines, which was later altered to Western Airlines
• 1967 - merged with Pacific Northern Airlines
• 1987 - Delta merged with Western Airlines (kept Delta name)

 

[Smarta$$]

Obviously I was referring to the ELT and board being willing participants...

Never said it can't happen, if JB is willing.

 

[1.3XVso]

obviously i was referring to the elt and board being willing participants...

Never said it can't happen, if jb is willing.

juiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Obviously I was referring to the ELT and board being willing participants...

Never said it can't happen, if JB is willing.

You're kidding right? The only reason we haven't been sold yet is because the right price has yet to be offered. What if someone offers $9,10 or 11 a share? SOLD!

 

[Smarta$$]

You're kidding right? The only reason we haven't been sold yet is because the right price has yet to be offered. What if someone offers $9,10 or 11 a share? SOLD!

You're kidding right? How the ******************** do you know? God damn ********************ing pilots that think they are on the board of directors.

Tell me something skippy, if we are so hot, so valuable, so in play, so doomed to be acquired, why hasn't anyone offered the money yet? Where is the money? Were companies prohibited from making offers before right now?

 

[geardown]

You're kidding right? How the ******************** do you know? God damn ********************ing pilots that think they are on the board of directors.

Tell me something skippy, if we are so hot, so valuable, so in play, so doomed to be acquired, why hasn't anyone offered the money yet? Where is the money? Were companies prohibited from making offers before right now?

The value of our assets have matured and the "landscape" of the US airline industry has changed. Before Delta/NW, the shares of the pie were smaller. Today, with DL/NW and UAL/CAL, the pie has much fewer but much larger slices. To effectively compete at the party, a larger piece of pie is required. Why did SWA feel the need to acquire AT? They were already the largest domestic airline. Today, more so than at any other time, JB presents a true value to any company with a weakness in the NE and Carribean markets. As the competition decreases in size, the value of our slots also increases for anyone lacking access or looking for more. The value of JB can be seen simply by looking at the increasing RASM numbers coupled with the relative ease we have in quickly succeeding in new markets. At what point is the potential of our slots maxed out and are we making the maximum amount of money using them. If we have reached that point, the only way to further increase thier value is to sell them for a higher price. To whom, and how we, as a company go about that is inconsequential. The only thing that should matter to the pilots is how that COULD effect us. Will it happen? Your guess is as good as mine, but IF it does we will be an afterthought to the deal. A CBA will atleast move us a little closer to the middle and provide us a bit of a say in our futures. As it stands now, we have NONE.

 

[CapnVegetto]

You're kidding right? How the ******************** do you know? God damn ********************ing pilots that think they are on the board of directors.

Tell me something skippy, if we are so hot, so valuable, so in play, so doomed to be acquired, why hasn't anyone offered the money yet? Where is the money? Were companies prohibited from making offers before right now?

You and I usually agree, but here you are wrong, my man.

JP and the board are numbers/money people. The reason we haven't been sold up to this point is that JP and his cronies believe that they can drive the price up and make more money by strengthening the balance sheet and acquiring more assets (i.e. slots, etc.) We haven't been sold because JP thinks if he hangs on to us a little while longer, and dumps a bit more money into asset acquisition (i.e. the slot buy, newer aircraft, 321's, etc.) he will get a bigger return on his investment.

Make no mistake about it, JP could give a $hit about the airline, running it, growing it, anything. He is a money man, plain and simple. This place is a cash cow to him. The only reason JetBlue is still JetBlue is because JP hasn't been offered what he feels is enough money yet. He thinks he can hang on and make more money, so that's what he's doing. Take a look at what has happened since Barger has took over. The balance sheet has gotten stronger. We have more slots than we used to have. We have less debt. All of this is intended to drive up the stock price, which they have been mildly successful at lately. It's closing in on $6 a share. Still less than when I got hired, but it's getting better.

Nothing is going to happen until AA emerges from BK. Horton wants to be the big fish eating the little minnow, and while he's in BK he can't do that. After they emerge, what will happen? Merger with B6? I don't know, I can't gauge what JP is thinking. If JP thinks he can still grow the company and increase his $$$$ before selling, he'll say no. If AA offers him enough and/or JP thinks that's the best he's going to do, then welcome to the AMR umbrella.

The point is, we've got time. We can get a union in place before this happens. AA is saying sometime after the first of the year they exit bankruptcy. When that happens, game on. We have until then. However, I believe this is our last chance. Could I be wrong? Sure, I could. I don't know what JP and the board is thinking. But, hope for the best and plan for the worst. Looking at the retirement picture, even with a staple, a merger with AA is not a bad thing. We'll all retire as widebody captains. I'm totally OK with that.

If we get a union, I say bring it on!

 

[Draginass]

Don't worry, it won't take the management tools at AA more than a couple of years before they destroy all morale and customer service at Jet Blue.

 

[BeachBummer]

It too the mananagment tools here at jetblue less than a decade to so that...

 

[Skank]

We're throwing around "you'd have to be a fool to believe" quite a bit here. Can I just say that we are on Flightinfo, and leave it at that? I think everything here speaks for itself. It's a bunch of blowhards posturing and getting all macho, all while remaining anonymous.