Jetblue and American?

[n757st]

Yup. Any one that doesn't bash the company, think the sky is falling, and think we will all be on the street tomorrow must drink the juice. That must be it.

No, I rarely bash the company, but I believe in pilot protection and I want a CBA. There are some levelheaded guys around us... (not line)

 

[J32driver]

We will know in 30 days if he is full of #hit.

Critical thinking skills escaping you again, huh?

Look at my post... read it SLOWLY... repeat it a couple of times. Maybe you will understand it.

It says... a new union drive is more than 30 days away. If it takes more 30 days to START a drive... how long until a vote? 60 days... 90 days? I don't know. But... I do know that 3 months is a long time to be humming around with your junk flapping in the wind like we don't have a care in the world.

Do I think AA can grab us if we don't want them too? No. Can we get tied up if jetBlue is willing? Oh, heck yeah! B6 "Pravda" has been very aggressive about putting new articles to rest in the past. Yet... this time... nothing but crickets so far.

What do I REALLY think is going to happen? I think it has been made very apparent that we are a target for AA after they emerge. I think both Delta and Southwest have a vested interest in making sure that AA doesn't get us. Where we wind up... I have no clue. But... I'm 100% sure that we are involved in the chess game.

Ya know... if you would ratchet down the smarta$$ attitude (see what I did right there) you might be able to have a productive, adult conversation sometime. Until then... just go get the walk around while I continue to sip on my coffee.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Could AA merge with us? I have believed for the longest time that it is the most likely scenario, with WN coming in second.

We are the foreign exchange student with big tits at the dance right now. New(er) airplanes, tons of NYC slots, and a JFK operation that would give AA a hardon bigtime.

I don't believe a damn thing of what the ELT says about organic growth and all that crap. Barger can spout off till the cows come home about not wanting to merge, but it's not up to him. It's up to the money behind him. I can promise you, if JP and the BOD stand to make a couple billion dollars, they are NOT going to say no. They would be stupid if they did.

Nothing happens quickly in this business. The reality may very well be that AA isn't interested in us, Alaska, Frontier, or anybody. They may simply be trying to put out this press release to drive up LCC's participation and the payout they get from merging with them. Negotiation 101: Show potential suitors that they have competition.

Of course, those of you that think a union is going to be ironclad protection are dreaming. All you have to do is look at history to know that is not true. At least, though, if we have a seat at the table, and a CBA, we have Allegheny/Mohawk and McB on our side. Right now we have jack squat. Best case scenario right now: A staple with fences. All you senior captains that think a CBA is your ticket to the left seat of a 767 in a couple of years are smoking crack. The best thing you can hope for, even with a union, is a little bit of integration with the MD80/737 guys at AA. You'll be lucky if the APA acquiesces you that.

Of course, the best case scenario with a union is not much better, we just basically guarantee that we get on the seniority list. I'm OK with that. The YOUNGEST pilot on AA's list right now is 36 years old. With McB legislation and a union we will be merged and placed AHEAD of all the AA furloughs. Without a CBA, we have NOTHING. It is completely uncharted territory. There is no way in hell we will all be dumped tomorrow if it happens, that is completely impractical for the company. But there isn't anything that will keep them from dumping us in the future if they deem it more cost efficient. I really don't think that will happen, but anything is possible.

 

[Flyby1206]

Being bought/merged or remaining independent we still need a CBA and have to stay on that track. We cant control what AA does, or what the JB BOD does. We can only control our efforts towards a CBA.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Being bought/merged or remaining independent we still need a CBA and have to stay on that track. We cant control what AA does, or what the JB BOD does. We can only control our efforts towards a CBA.

Exactly. There is no sense bitching about it, or worrying about it. There is not a damn thing in the universe we can do except vote in a union and see what happens.

 

[Smarta$$]

Critical thinking skills escaping you again, huh?

Look at my post... read it SLOWLY... repeat it a couple of times. Maybe you will understand it.

It says... a new union drive is more than 30 days away. If it takes more 30 days to START a drive... how long until a vote? 60 days... 90 days? I don't know. But... I do know that 3 months is a long time to be humming around with your junk flapping in the wind like we don't have a care in the world.

Do I think AA can grab us if we don't want them too? No. Can we get tied up if jetBlue is willing? Oh, heck yeah! B6 "Pravda" has been very aggressive about putting new articles to rest in the past. Yet... this time... nothing but crickets so far.

What do I REALLY think is going to happen? I think it has been made very apparent that we are a target for AA after they emerge. I think both Delta and Southwest have a vested interest in making sure that AA doesn't get us. Where we wind up... I have no clue. But... I'm 100% sure that we are involved in the chess game.

Ya know... if you would ratchet down the smarta$$ attitude (see what I did right there) you might be able to have a productive, adult conversation sometime. Until then... just go get the walk around while I continue to sip on my coffee.

Typical, another 150-250k JetBlue captain bitching about his lot in life...

 

[Lake Alice]

Typical, another 150-250k JetBlue captain bitching about his lot in life...

If he/she wants to bitch about their lot in life who cares provided they are helping work towards a CBA.


Once the announcement is made regarding the T/E it will be too late for us. We will be stuck fighting for our futures based on the 20 or so PEA's floating around.

 

[Smarta$$]

I think you mean IF the announcement is made.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I think you mean IF the announcement is made.

No. It's when.

 

[Smarta$$]

No. It's when.

OK. When will that be? Or are you just going to make an impossibly vague and ominous statement that can never be dis-proven because time goes on indefinitely? Oh, just a little longer, and my prediction will come true.......

 

[Lake Alice]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

OK. When? If JetBlue being stand alone after 12 years isn't enough, how many years will it take for you to stop saying "any day now, its about to happen, its only a matter of when"....

Just more vague open ended noncommittal fear mongering.

I get it. Its just about to happen! Any day now! Can't be much longer! Its just a matter of when, not if!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

OK. When? If JetBlue being stand alone after 12 years isn't enough, how many years will it take for you to stop saying "any day now, its about to happen, its only a matter of when"....

Just more vague open ended noncommittal fear mongering.

I get it. Its just about to happen! Any day now! Can't be much longer! Its just a matter of when, not if!

I dont usually agree with the way lake presents his arguments(but agree with most of is principles) but this one was spot on with no emotion. If you think we arent in serious play your naive. If anything is on a timeline its just that our future will be far more clear in 2 years.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not stirring the pot or knocking anyone else for not thinking the same thing. For me it's a matter of when. I don't believe for a second Barger or Joel Peterson are in it for the long haul. Go look up peterson and his company's. He's a heck of a business man and his business is building companies to be later sold. JetBlue continues to operate independently solely because his hands are deep in our pockets.
Barger is a business man as well. Look at his track record. For twelve years he helped convince pilots to work more than any other carrier while accepting substantially less. He wants an airline to run and will do so at any cost.

SO, we are SOLELY independant because Joels hands are deep in our pockets? (may be true) Question is, is that now no longer true? I mean, why are we in play NOW if we are solely independant because Joel has his hands in our pocket? What is true now that wasn't true 12 months ago, or 2 months ago?

If American or any other airline offers peterson the amount of money he expects we are done. If Barger has the opportunity to run a larger airline we are done.

So being swallowed up is dependant on a good offer? Why has it not happened for 12 years? What has changed now?

The only thing that gives us a fighting chance is a CBA.

Most likely, NOTHING will protect us. No silver bullet to protect pilots flying for an airline with NO future, NO benefits, NO pay, No future career progression, NO retirements, NO heavy internationl aircraft... We have a ********************ty job at a ********************ty company. We don't deserve a fair integration right?

Look at the location of our airline, the terminal, the slots and the newer aircraft. We have a target so large on our backs a baby could hit it.

Really? I guess all of those things are new? None of that was true last year? 6 months ago? 2 years ago?

It would be great to retire from the same company but lets be realistic. The chances of that happening in a blue uniform becomes increasingly smaller by the day.

I appreciate your tone in this post Lake. It is refreshing to have an intelligent non-hyperventilating post to reply to. And I agree that a merger is possible, but these rumors have been around for years. The reasons you submit for why this is imminent, have also been true for years. Nothing is different now except American is desperate...

We have little or nothing to gain by hooking ourself to that sinking ship, and there is no reason to believe that American will be a force after bankrupty. They still will have ********************ty customer service and bitter employees. They will just be able to sell a ********************ty product cheaper than now, that won't be enough....

Again, we have to be willing to merge, and the reasons you give for us being willing, have been true for years.

 

[Lake Alice]

Actually none of us have to be willing to merge. As this is a business only the board needs to be willing. It can be argued Barger has a personal stake in Jetblue but those who make the final decision have only a financial one. The price hasn't been right in the past but the stakes are higher now than ever.