JetBlue and ALPA

[IrishjbPilot]

Well, this did not take long....In a year, if the company has not made some signifigant changes, this will be the approach...and hopefully 50%+1 will be on board....


http://jetbluealpa.info/

 

[Stanky]

I'm glad somebody is starting this bandwagon. I'll jump on.

I appreciate all of the things the JBPA guys did. I really do, but I wrote in ALPA.

All of you naysayer's can bash them all you want, but I've been ALPA at a couple of airlines, and I've non-union at a couple of airlines, and I really liked having ALPA.

I didn't and don't always agree with them and I probably never will, but I can't stand having no say over my working conditions and pay rates. I really can't take anymore corporate double-speak and "Great Takeaways".

I hope that we can convince the USAir guys and the TWA guys that ALPA is better than the current process which has brought us industry bottom-dwelling payrates, work rules and benefits.

I hope to God that we can fix this mess in a year. I believe that we will inevitably need to have a union here sooner or later, and I believe that the strength of a national union outweighs the benefits of an in-house with a managment group that has a proven record of not wanting to treat us fairly.

This isn't Southwest. It never will be. It's the same old thing I had at United, except they hug you before they bend you over and expect you to pay your bills with "Culture".

I talked to the bill collectors...they want cash, not hugs and CULTure.

So do I.

 

[IrishjbPilot]

Agreed 100%. I think that if the company does not act on the PCRB analysis asap, you will see the USAir, TWA and BOB's on board for ALPA....

 

[FlyboyPhil]

Oh.. but they will act quickly.. the committees are going to be starting soon.. in 3 months or so they will be formed.. and after a few more months they will bring the report we got from the PCRB to management and they will tell us it's a great takeaway a few months later. Which you can translate into "pound sand". This process will preserve our culture, maximize our collaboration, and build on our managements history of nonsensical unilateral changes.
But I'm not bitter....

 

[PCL_128]

Good to see. Good luck to all JetBlue pilots. Hopefully you'll be wearing ALPA pins in a year.

 

[IrishjbPilot]

I dont know if it will be a year, I hope so but as long as the process starts.......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

maybe Barger should've taken the JBPA offer....

 

[JoeMerchant]

So how did ALPA work out for the USAir and TWA guys?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

So how did ALPA work out for the USAir and TWA guys?

The standard weak t^t question.

So how did inept mangement work out?

How did not moving from a strict DOH work out for USAIR?

How did Carl Ichan work out for TWA?

 

[Dan Roman]

The standard weak t^t question.

So how did inept mangement work out?

How did not moving from a strict DOH work out for USAIR?

How did Carl Ichan work out for TWA?

You are spot on. To judge ALPA by ignoring all the good they have accomplished and pointing out a couple situations they couldn't fix, and as you said were not of their own doing, is weak to say the least.
BTW, how can you fault ALPA at USAir?? All they did was try and represent ALL the ALPA pilots equally and not show favoritism to either pilot group. You couldn't have found two harder to merge lists if you tried. East just bailed when they didn't get preferential treatment over west.

 

[bluesideup340]

The standard weak t^t question.

So how did inept mangement work out?

How did not moving from a strict DOH work out for USAIR?

How did Carl Ichan work out for TWA?

ALPA watch as USair was taking to the cleaners
and Ichan had no problem to get what he needed and wanted under the ALPA watch.
Yes let me sign-up. I too want to pay 2% for nothing. It's a bargain.

 

[Stanky]

Well, Blueside,

How does not having a union work out for you?

Industry trailing work rules, benefits and pay.

Unless of course you're an airbus captain in which case you can point to a few who have it worse. Namely, those of us at Jetblue who aren't airbus captains.

I did not mean to come off here saying that airbus captains have it great, some of them do if they're senior enough, but most are also struggling a little.

Not as bad as the Embraer FO's are, but still struggling none-the-less with no B fund, a lack of rigs, and less time at home than they were getting even three years ago. Also, while I'm on it, our insurance sucks.

Yup, the non-union has really worked out well here....for the first few hundred guys.

The rest of us will take many, many years just to make our first hundred g's.

I'm willing to pay 2% for a chance at industry standard.

I'm capable of recognizing that a 2% cost to me would probably mean about a 17% increase in dollars earned, assuming that ALPA can get me anywhere near what the PCRB report said that I should be at.

It must be nice living in your little fantasy world where money is no obstacle. I used to live that way before I came to Jetblue.

I guess I made a mistake in doing so, and believing that what D&D told me.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Oh.. but they will act quickly.. the committees are going to be starting soon.. in 3 months or so they will be formed.. and after a few more months they will bring the report we got from the PCRB to management and they will tell us it's a great takeaway a few months later. Which you can translate into "pound sand". This process will preserve our culture, maximize our collaboration, and build on our managements history of nonsensical unilateral changes.
But I'm not bitter....

The JB management will tweak a few things, but will not fix all the negatives highlighted in the PCRB report. They will do just enough to keep 50%+1 relatively happy. They will put on a puppet show that will unveil our "new collaborative culture" and "show" us how it is working for our "benefit".

I was one of the 49 pilots who voted for ALPA. I just hope that next time around, ALPA wins so we can get on with business.

GP

 

[Dan Roman]

ALPA watch as USair was taking to the cleaners
and Ichan had no problem to get what he needed and wanted under the ALPA watch.
Yes let me sign-up. I too want to pay 2% for nothing. It's a bargain.

You probably won't see it, but if it wasn't for ALPA, you would be making less than you are. ALPA is the reason Airline Pilot's are paid as well as they are and have at least hung on to a semblance of what we had while our profession has been under attack by CEO's that saw our pay scales as the low hanging fruit for lining their pockets.That's a bit of an over generalization, but by and large, upper management pay and bonus's have sky rocketed since deregulation, employee compensation not so much.

 

[eaglesview]

You probably won't see it, but if it wasn't for ALPA, you would be making less than you are. .

I wouldn't try to sell that logic here at UAL, it won't fly. (no pun intended)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is an idea: if you are an ex TWA pilot at JB, get ALPA and ensure you elect leaders that won't waive your scope!

If you are ex USAIR at JB, get ALPA and ensure that your elected leaders don't agree to binding arbitration!.

 

[CFIT]

Here is an idea: if you are an ex TWA pilot at JB, get ALPA and ensure you elect leaders that won't waive your scope!

If you are ex USAIR at JB, get ALPA and ensure that your elected leaders don't agree to binding arbitration!.

Either way, don't think, just get ALPO!

Prater needs your money for a new car!

Has he taken a pay cut?

Of course not! My Bad!

 

[bluesideup340]

I'm willing to pay 2% for a chance at industry standard.

I'm capable of recognizing that a 2% cost to me would probably mean about a 17% increase in dollars earned, assuming that ALPA can get me anywhere near what the PCRB report said that I should be at.


How many Union jobs have leading contracts? Did TWA or USAir under ALPA have a leading contract?

Where do get the 17% figure? I understand you are angry but that is not a reason to make things up. Just because a Union is on property does not mean more money.

 

[bluesideup340]

Here is an idea: if you are an ex TWA pilot at JB, get ALPA and ensure you elect leaders that won't waive your scope!

If you are ex USAIR at JB, get ALPA and ensure that your elected leaders don't agree to binding arbitration!.

REZ,
bad leadership is always a problem. JB has good leaders running the show, why should we take the risk with a Union.
Would you be a good Union leader? Do you understand the industry? What makes a good Union and Union Leadership?

 

[Stanky]

Blueside,

No one here is asking for industry leading. At least no one I know of.

The 17% figure is what the PCRB Action Plan Analysis says that I am still underpaid after the pay raise that was recently handed out.

That's just straight pay. If you look at our work rules and benefits it looks even worse.

I am comparing myself to industry average, not industry leading. I actually educated myself prior to the election instead of just trusting that the very same managment team that brought me industry-bottom rates, benefits and work rules would "Do the right thing".

Did you read the entire PCRB report?
Did you read the entire Company PCRB Action Plan?
Did you read the PCRB Action Plan Analysis?

Or did you just say "I got mine, screw everyone else"?

Unions don't solve all that is wrong with the industry. That's a fact.

For those of us who have been doing this for 20 + years, you recognize that there are some things that can only be done with a CBA and that's where I'm at. You can live in your little blue world and look down at those of us in the bottom 70% of the list, feeling superior that you went to an airline that none of us took seriously until our airlines imploded after 911. That's your right.

Knock yourself out.

Just don't tell me that I can't have a middle-class income in a job that paid far better than middle-class wages for generations.

Enjoy the left seat of the airbus, it's the only job at this joint that pays a liveable wage. Except for your friends in managment.

 

[Stanky]

By the way, Blueside

Industry leading wages are paid by union airlines.

I don't care if you look at SW, Fedex, UPS or any of the other airlines that pay a decent wage, they're all union.

You, on the other hand, are apparently an idiot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

REZ,
bad leadership is always a problem. JB has good leaders running the show, why should we take the risk with a Union.

Because with a union you could create a professional craft and class.

Your good leaders running the show believe this

jbpilot=gate agent=ramper=FA.

You will always be perceived as part of this class of employee. Gate agents/rampers/FAs do not have career expections as pilots do. JB pilots, with education, training, skill and responsibility have a fair expectation to have a more consumerate compensation package than FA's and rampers.

Your JB leaders do not. They believe jbpilot=gate agent=ramper=FA.

Would you be a good Union leader? Do you understand the industry? What makes a good Union and Union Leadership?

A committed and participatory pilot group.

 

[clickclickboom]

What many here dont realize is that some of your strongest union supporters could come right from the BOB list. Many of them have the strongest expectations of all which will ultimately lead to the strongest dissappointment.

I know a few guys that literally every aspect of their life revolves around jetblue. A committment on a level as if jetblue was a child or a spouse.

Of course 3 of them made over 300k with 5% profit share contribution this year..

 

[Lake Alice]

Click,

You can compare a large majority of the BoB's to a beaten spouse. They will continue to take whatever management gives and find a way to rationalize. This is the frustrating part.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Click,

You can compare a large majority of the BoB's to a beaten spouse. They will continue to take whatever management gives and find a way to rationalize. This is the frustrating part.

A lot of the Boobs are star struck. They have been involved in committee after committee after committee. These guys have been in meetings with the big boys in management and now have Stockholm Syndrome. It's either that or they don't want their litlle world upset wether they are check airmen or super senior. It's pretty sad to see. As I have said over and over again, no one will vote for a union out of charity. They will have to be personally affected or have a close friend affected by our poor benefits and pay before they will cast their yes vote.

 

[Skank]

By the way, Blueside

Industry leading wages are paid by union airlines.

I don't care if you look at SW, Fedex, UPS or any of the other airlines that pay a decent wage, they're all union.

You, on the other hand, are apparently an idiot.

Well, at least we're at industry standard for message board etiquette. Brings back memories of the ALPA message boards.

 

[Stanky]

I'm willing to pay 2% for a chance at industry standard.

I'm capable of recognizing that a 2% cost to me would probably mean about a 17% increase in dollars earned, assuming that ALPA can get me anywhere near what the PCRB report said that I should be at.


How many Union jobs have leading contracts? Did TWA or USAir under ALPA have a leading contract?

Where do get the 17% figure? I understand you are angry but that is not a reason to make things up. Just because a Union is on property does not mean more money.

When I read stuff like this, the same kind of propaganda that the BoB's produced, I find it hard to believe that guys like this are allowed to touch the controls of a jet.

Whether you agree or disagree with my opinion about the need for a union is irrelevant, the facts that I used are true.

You don't get a good contract without a union, the PCRB puts my position and years of service at about 17% underpaid in comparison to the rest of the major airlines surveyed.

Some of these guys need to put down the glass of blue juice and read the three reports. They contain a wealth of information that show you how we are basement-dwellers.

I didn't make anything up, Blueside.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Here is an idea: if you are an ex TWA pilot at JB, get ALPA and ensure you elect leaders that won't waive your scope!

If you are ex USAIR at JB, get ALPA and ensure that your elected leaders don't agree to binding arbitration!.

But ...but...but (stammer,stutter) that calls for the pilot group to get (GASP!!! ) Involved ...!!!

PHXFLYR