JetBlue 190's

[avrodriver]

JetBlue 190's Outsourced???

"adding 50 destinations w/start of EMB190 service ’05... Seeking scope clause relief from pilots allowing RJ partners, not just mainline pilots, to fly 100-pax AC"

This may have been addressed already, but was just curious is there any truth to this?? If it is I really hope you guys don't allow it. That's the last thing any of us need right now. I found this under JetBlue on Air Inc's latest monthly news letter. Thanks AD

 

[LAXSaabdude]

"... Seeking scope clause relief from pilots allowing RJ partners, not just mainline pilots, to fly 100-pax AC"

Pleaaaase don't do it! Set a precedent, guys! One airline for all flying. Something that should have happened at AMR years ago.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Dizel8]

That does not sound like jetBlue and I certainly have not heard of anything like this. It does sound remarkably as to what U was asking for. Sure the two has not gotten mixed up?

 

[avrodriver]

JetBlue Airways: 246/40/20. Hiring 20 in MAR & 200 in ’04. Accepting apps/updates online... Orders/Opts: 1 A320/mo thru ’04... Routes: Increased BOS 1/04; JFK-SMF 3/04; adding 50 destinations w/start of EMB190 service ’05... Seeking scope clause relief from pilots allowing RJ partners, not just mainline pilots, to fly 100-pax AC... Seeking 10 LGA gates for spring ’04... Low-Cost Carriers' Secret (see sidebar)... Reported 1/04 ASMs of 1.38B, up 47% from 1/03 ASMs of.94B... Featured in 12/02 ALPC... www.jetblue.com... IP, LAX JF-A.

Read it for yourself, I've seen these guys get things wrong before......I mean come on...it is KIT DARBY.........same guy that tries to convince everyone there's been some type of hiring boom the last 5 years.........not flaming just making sure there is no truth to this. AD

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Yea, and Air Inc has never been wrong or inaccurate before?!

I have no idea what that excerpt is supposed to mean. The plan has always been for the E190's to be JetBlue aircraft flown by JetBlue pilots.

Scope is a word that has ever even been mentioned at JetBlue.

I've been wrong about things before, but I'm sure I'm not wrong about this.

 

[Dizel8]

Like I said, I have heard nothing of it, as a matter of fact, the company has been adamant about the 190 being flown by jetBlue pilots. Now, that is not to say, that I am a fly on the boardroom wall, far from it, but this would present a 180 degree departure, from what the company has previously said.

 

[dlredline]

Relax guys, this ain't happening. Our chief pilot informed us 2 weeks ago by email that we (ALL Jetblue pilots) will likely be bidding for positions on the E190 about this time next year.

AirInc. and Kit Darby providing bogus information??? I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say.

Not.

Red

 

[avrodriver]

Thank you dlredline, that's all I was looking for. I knew this didn't sound right. It's sad people actually pay for the useless information that no talent a.ss clown provides. They give furloughed guys a speacial rate I guess, I use my pop's. AD

 

[On Your Six]

dredline,

How popular do you think the E190 will be for current pilots? I have heard that pay for the E190 could be 2/3 that on the A320 for each position. That being said, if the E190 is based somewhere other than JFK, then QOL issues could supercede money issues...

What is the current top annual pay for an A320 Captain (excluding overtime)?

 

[LearLove]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JB GUYS...... ONE LIST, enough said.

 

[LearLove]

Hey DL or other JB guys,

Did your CP call Kitt and see WTF is up with the newsletter? If its wrong info then maybe Kitt will put something on his web site.

 

[datafox]

Do JetBlue pilots have any say in the matter?

Don't get me wrong, I love JetBlue just as much as anyone else...but is the JetBlue pilot group part of any organized union? Doesn't the company just dictate work rules, pay, etc...and either you accept it or go somewhere else?

Do JetBlue pilots have a contract?

Datafox

 

[Dizel8]

Why the h#ll should WE do the research for him?

Datafox, you would be surprised how much they listen to the pilots, besides, no point in getting into the whole w/o, DCI mess.
We see where that has left AMR vs Eagle and DAL vs Comair.

 

[nhbizz]

Not flaming here, but I suppose you guys have contractual rights to it? O ya, that's right no contract. Be very wary of anything management "promises" you.

It is CRUCIAL, that this flying is done by your pilots to possibly start a trend here. No more outsourcing to the lowest bidder.

 

[Dizel8]

nhbizz,

First you flame us for not having a "contract" and then you want us to defend your piece of the pie? Surely, I must be missing something!

 

[Skygod]

>> I suppose you guys have contractual rights to it?
>> O ya, that's right no contract. Be very wary of
>> anything management "promises" you.


I think the word of JetBlue management is worth more than the pages and pages and pages of contracts at other airlines. Look at the huge APA scope clause that allowed Eagle to get unlimited RJ's. Or the good work that ALPA has done at Delta.

I quit my ALPA carrier that was part of the outsourcing lowest bidder shell game. I came to JetBlue. What have you done, apart from blame others?

Oh. The FAPA blub posted also says we are looking for 10 gate at LGA. Ten gates? Seems a lot for eight something out-and-backs a day. Could they be wrong. Could they?

 

[a320drivr]

The 190's will be flown by jetBlue pilots. Its all one seniority list. Enough said!!!!

 

[nhbizz]

Dizel8,

I was not flaming you for not having a contract, it was more for all the other responses from guys saying things like, "A chief pilot said xxxx." I would just be wary of blindly following along, to one day wake up and find that those A/C are going somewhere else. Decisions can be made overnight. And maybe it is because where I work, but I would be afraid that someone else may come along and take those away from you. And despite what all you ALPA haters may think, having a CONTRACT does provide some protection. Just keep an eye on management.

Skygod,

I almost posted a reply to something you said a while back but I erased it before I did. This time I can't stop myself. Your screenname is appropriate from what I can understand. I know someone who flies for Jetblue and they told me they would never make a career there. They WILL come back to the big D someday. He said he flies with lot's of guys that must share your screenname. Not an atmosphere he wishes to stay at for ever.

And I am confused by your post? Who am I blaming? and for what?

 

[Dizel8]

nhbizz,

If the pilot group saw a need for a union, at this point in time or in the future, I am sure we could find one to join. However, as long as management continues to show us they truly care, then no need.

I am perlexed though, and while I am happy that all you people give us advice, one would have to surmise, that based upon what is often written here, that there is none of the pilots at jetBlue, who has been around the block. I mean, if you think, we have to be warned of the intent of management and union issues. Heck, I am a relatively "young" kid, yet been doing this aviation cr@p for now 17 years. I believe we all learned a few things along the way.

As far as the skygod comment, sorry to hear your friend wants to return to the big D, but that certainly is his choice, and DAL is well known for their friendly attitude. The smart aleck remark about pilots acting like skygods over here is just sad, not only because it is silly name calling, but secondly, because while there is a few, like every where, I have never had the opportunity to work with a friendlier bunch of people.

 

[Skygod]

>> I am confused by your post? Who am I blaming? and for what?

Let me explain your own post! You were trying to blame JetBlue pilots for not stopping the low-pay dog-eat-dog RJ race to the bottom.


Sorry about the dumb screen name. I forgot that irony is an advanced mental function.

Signed Skygod. King of the wild blue yonder. Mighty master of the wind and wing.

 

[Mr Hat]

I mean come on...it is KIT DARBY.........same guy that tries to convince everyone there's been some type of hiring boom the last 5 years......

There has been. At the Air Inc offices.

I think the word of JetBlue management is worth more than the pages and pages and pages of contracts at other airlines. Look at the huge APA scope clause that allowed Eagle to get unlimited RJ's. Or the good work that ALPA has done at Delta.

Well, when your right, your right...I wish ALPA would figure it out before everything gets destroyed...then again, it may be too late already. I've personally tried for 4 years to convince my MEC to go for a single list for the benefit of everyone involved (including the rest of the industry) As you know, we at Continental Express have a single MEC with CAL right now. For a while before ALPA, we were pretty much on track for a SSL. After the ALPA vote, the scabs felt that Express forced ALPA on them even though its been proven that the ALPA vote would have passed CAL without Express. Since then, those with who still hold the 20 year old grudge with ALPA over their decision to cross have declaired war on us and are very close to kicking us out of our MEC. 4 years ago, I thought we might set a precedent...today, I believe we will just embarass ourselves.

Our chief pilot informed us 2 weeks ago by email that we (ALL Jetblue pilots) will likely be bidding for positions on the E190 about this time next year

(((Drool)))

If the pilot group saw a need for a union, at this point in time or in the future, I am sure we could find one to join. However, as long as management continues to show us they truly care, then no need.

That must be a nice thing. From an outsider looking in, IF you did see a reason to unionize, wouldn't it be a better idea to form your own inhouse union rather than join an outside union being your unique relationship with management?

 

[jaxgus]

Do Some Homework

Do JetBlue pilots have any say in the matter?

Don't get me wrong, I love JetBlue just as much as anyone else...but is the JetBlue pilot group part of any organized union? Doesn't the company just dictate work rules, pay, etc...and either you accept it or go somewhere else?

Do JetBlue pilots have a contract?

Datafox

Do a search of flightinfo threads and you will find a very lengthy discussion on the JetBlue Pilot Contract; bottomline, we have contractual rights. Please don't start this one again because we want the internet to continue functioning tomorrow and getting the this croud started on this issue may crash the net.

 

[skirt]

Re: Re: JetBlue 190's

Pleaaaase don't do it! Set a precedent, guys! One airline for all flying. Something that should have happened at AMR years ago.

LAXSaabdude.

Reading this thread really cracks me up.

At Jetblue, I feel much safer with my little 15 page personal contract backed by the honest WORD of Jetblue management, than I did with my 489 page contract at my previous airline that was backed by snake oil salesman.

No, I am not naive. I have been around the block for many, many, years.

Skirt

 

[ultrarunner]

Re: JetBlue 190's Outsourced???

"adding 50 destinations w/start of EMB190 service ’05... Seeking scope clause relief from pilots allowing RJ partners, not just mainline pilots, to fly 100-pax AC"

That's the first clue right there! Since when would a company need scope-clause relief from a pilot group that's not even coverered by a CBA.

Good grief. I'm convinced that people purposely publish this stuff.

 

[Noam]

I have no problem with JetBlue, I think they are one hell'uva company with great employees in every department.

However, eventually the crap is going to hit the fan. And when it does, a 15-page "agreement" isn't going to work. And neither is $55/hr F/O pay when growth stops.

It took LUV 30-years to screw things up with its F/A's. Hopefully JetBlue will learn from LUV's mistakes and never get to that point.