Jet to Pick Up Elder Bush Was Warned

[gunfyter]

Hey ACE.

Do you really think you know more than the rest of us?

The Glideslope is irrelevant... They weren't on it.

And do you think two pilots who someone lets fly a Gulfstream don't know how to fly a glideslope? Something else was wrong.

 

[LXJ31]

Yeah, I'm not sure an ILS enters the equation here. I think that is the assumption people are working under. But what the hell do I know, I'm just a quote unquote pilot.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

The Glideslope is irrelevant... They weren't on it.

And do you think two pilots who someone lets fly a Gulfstream don't know how to fly a glideslope? Something else was wrong.

How the F&&& do you know if they were (or thought they were) on the glideslope. You weren't there. And guess what, mr. intelligent...there are a LOT of marginal pilots flying Gulfstreams. Just go to FSI someday and see the people they let fly these things (and I'm not talking about charter either.) Proven: put the chief pilot and director of ops in the cockpit together and you've got a very questionable situation. And, yes, if I'm basing by your posts, I am a better pilots (and smarter) than you. Don't tell your wife.

Ace.

 

[LXJ31]

And, yes, if I'm basing by your posts, I am a better pilots (and smarter) than you. Don't tell your wife.

Ace.

You forgot to put "nyah-nyah-nyah so there!"

Smart guy.

 

[gunfyter]

Glideslope:

Whenever I am on the glideslope... I usually don't crash into 120ft towers 3 miles away from the runway. (as reported). And I usually don't get altitude warnings from ATC when I am on the glideslope.

I am going out on a limb and say they were not on the glidesplope.

Thought they were on the glideslope...? can't help you there. Not a mind reader.


The controller talked with the aircraft approximately two minutes before the accident and asked them to check their altitude because they saw them at somewhere approximately 400 feet

Two minutes before the accident they would have been about 4 miles away from where they hit assuming about 2 minutes per mile of groundspeed. Yet ATC reports they were about 400 ft... when they should have been at 1500 ft MSL. They would have been over 7 miles from the runway at 400Ft if ATC is correct.

About 1000 ft low.

 

[FL450]

Don't be so sure that the "glideslope" you are on is accurate. Watched a very thought provoking video in GS last summer about erroneous glide slope indications. It highlighted a crew flying an ILS that would have flown them right into the ground had they not verified altitude at the marker. Wish I knew the name of the video as it was quite an eye opener.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Exactly 450. You don't know what was going on until someone says what's on the CVR or FDR. They could have had a malfunction of their equipment (gs receiver, autopilot, etc.) or they could have been in a vertical speed mode below the GS intending to capture from below in a shallow descent and forgot to check if it captured (saw this in a GII recurrent years ago). Had they had EGPWS, this might not have happened. Same thing on the Hendrix motorsport crash. EGPWS, TCAS, etc., doesn't make better pilots, just keeps some of them alive. Again 450, you're right, it could have been a number of things.

Ace

 

[gunfyter]

Don't be so sure that the "glideslope" you are on is accurate. Watched a very thought provoking video in GS last summer about erroneous glide slope indications. It highlighted a crew flying an ILS that would have flown them right into the ground had they not verified altitude at the marker. Wish I knew the name of the video as it was quite an eye opener.

The report says they were 400ft two minutes before the accident. (I wonder if thats 400ft MSL or just 400ft low?)

IF that is accurate, with Impact 3.25 miles from runway... two minutes puts them 7 miles out at 400 ft. Were the erroneous glideslopes in the video anything of that nature?

 

[AA717driver]

Buddy of mine saw Bush 41 today in Bocca... CLIMBING ON TO A Falcon 900!!! TC

 

[Hobbes]

so so many assumptions by so many of us. Ground Warning systems can be turned off by crew in most planes they are installed in, and I know crews who do it....you don't need to comment on the wisdom of this.... There could have been other malfunctions...could have even been something else wrong in the plane and they were distracted like the crew that flew that airliner into the everglades trying to fix some other warning light....

I mean we all won't really know anything until the tapes and results are all in and reported.

Ace of the base - nice ego.

 

[HSDriver]

I mean we all won't really know anything until the tapes and results are all in and reported.

Hobbes... That is a true statement!

 

[Publishers]

Sometimes when something is just not quite right we tend to continue on while we try and figure out what is the problem. The best thing to do is abandon the approach, get some altitude, and figure it out there.

 

[Diesel]

Publisher's is talking from his years of experience flying a desk and second guessing crews.

Of course he must have abandoned the approach of his own career.

 

[Publishers]

Diesel I never had any desire to be a commercial aircraft pilot and made the career change late in life after about 10 or 11 aircraft ownerships to see where I could find a place in the industry.

I am not second guessing anyone but exploring the possibilities like everyone else. We have a GIII and are always interested in the cause as I am the safety officer among other things.

 

[FL450]

The report says they were 400ft two minutes before the accident. (I wonder if thats 400ft MSL or just 400ft low?)

IF that is accurate, with Impact 3.25 miles from runway... two minutes puts them 7 miles out at 400 ft. Were the erroneous glideslopes in the video anything of that nature?

Yes they were. In the video, what the crew had captured was a false glideslope that was actually below the true glideslope. The AP locked on in approach mode and they began an early descent. They became suspicious when the altitude and the DME didn't match the approach parameters. It was based on a real event.

Still trying to find the name of the video.