Jet Blue teams w/Big Brother

[Dizel8]

NYRANGERS,

I am not sure, that Delta cancelled the program without any action. Yes, the program was halted, but I can almost assure you, that passenger information to setup the program was released.
Gathering empirical evidence so to speak.

I doubt the entire story of the Delta program will be known.

Not sure why you are attacking me, I said in my post, that I think jetBlue was wrong in doing this. Not much else I can say. I did not do it, I do not condone and quite frankly, it makes me wonder what they were thinking.

I must ask though, were your name released. If not, I think you are hammering the "Blues" people here pretty hard" for something they did not do. Oh, btw thats the jetBlues, not the St.Louis kind, which I think the Rangers would have problems with

Vlad Lenin,

Lots of bad stuff happens in the world on a daily basis, the list was somewhat in humour. I think we can pretty much make a list of atrocities and nail every single colour, race and creed. In this case, attacks against airplanes or the hijack of such, a certain demographic seems to figure rather prominently. Whereas your list has a rather varied list of people. Not sure who killed Olof Palme or the swedish foreign minister, but doubt it will be muslim extremist. In the latter case, it appears to be a swedish citizen, but from there to saying swedes are more inclined to kill, would be a far stretch indeed. Certainly not much evidence to support such a fact.

No intended to anger the swedes

 

[NYRANGERS]

Stick to the thread topic

From a more radical paper........






JetBlue Gave Defense Firm Files on Passengers.

Here's the PROOF that corporations are quite willing to abuse our right to privacy and are willing to do whatever the federal government tells them to do.

"WASHINGTON, Sept. 19 — JetBlue Airways acknowledged publicly today that it had provided a Pentagon contractor with information on more than one million of its passengers as part of a program to track down terrorists and other "high risk" passengers. That data, which was turned over in violation of the airline's own privacy policies, was then used to identify the passengers' Social Security numbers, financial histories and occupations.

JetBlue, a three-year-old discount airline, sent an e-mail message to passengers this week, conceding that it had made a mistake in providing the records last year to Torch Concepts, an Army contractor in Huntsville, Ala., for a research project on "airline passenger risk assessment."

'This was a mistake on our part and I know you and many of our customers feel betrayed by it,' said David Neeleman, JetBlue's chief executive, in an e-mail message that the airline, based in New York, said was sent to about 150 passengers who had written in so far to complain."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/20/bus...

Mr. Neeleman is a JOKE. amazing how corrupt politicians and corporate execs behave in exactly the same manner-- i.e. blatantly abusing we the people then later saying "I'm sorry".

SURE they are.

The evidence just keeps piling up folks-- WE NO LONGER have any rights regarding personal information-- and that information will ultimately be used against us by a fascist type of government.


``As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information."Benjamin Disraeli

 

[NYRANGERS]

FOX news suit

Oddly enough when one of the FOX news reporters was reporting this story........she said she would be part of an upcomming lawsuit. She seemed pi$$ed, but then gave a little smile to sign off. I guess the good news is she buys tickets on jetBlue, the bad is she is suing.

 

[Eagleflip]

Sorry I'm joining this thread late, but I was busy with an unwelcome visitor named Isabel.


I won't defend the company's decision to release that passenger info--time will tell just how damaging that decision will be.

NYRangers--I do wonder just why you are so adamant that JetBlue is a villain, that David Neeleman is "a joke"? Do you honestly believe he willingly defrauded our customers?

I know the man and know him to be an honest broker.

Have you ever met him?

Better yet, what's your real beef with JetBlue?

 

[jaxgus]

Who Else Gives Personal Info????

I'm not making an excuse for the actions of jetBlue, but where does junk mail come from? Where do credit card companies get your personal information to send out all the credit card offers we get each week?

This is a big deal because 9/11 and changes to American life are scaring a few paranoid individuals with the motivation to voice their fears. Major companies have been SELLING our personal information for years and we don't hear privacy activists breaking major news stories regarding, for example GMAC, Bank of America, Master Card, etc. These companies gain all this information from the credit bureaus everyday who SELL this for profit, just look at your credit report. This same information is publically available to law enforcement, federal agencies and private citizens who are willing to pay for it.

No one, other than the integrity of jetBlue, was harmed by jetBlue's actions. Torch Concepts is the culpret that pieced the personal information from PUBLIC databases which potentially violated the privacy of jetBlue customers. Responsible journalists should write a headline stating the truth ("Torch Concepts Created a Database With Personal Information in It"). jetBlue violated our internal policy which I'm sure has undermined our customers faith in us.

When it comes to class action law suits, any person who participates in them is an opportunist. The lawyers and defendants, this FOX reporter, are trying to take advantage of a situation. They want money, not to fix the problem.

jetBlue will demonstrate our values and take care of our customers. If anyone questions our integrity ask yourself this question, "Why did we admit to making a mistake and why did we take RESPONSIBILITY for our actions?" Typical politicians and management make excuses and find scapegoats to problems they find themselves in. jetBlue has not acted in typical political fashion.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRangers--I do wonder just why you are so adamant that JetBlue is a villain, that David Neeleman is "a joke"? Do you honestly believe he willingly defrauded our customers?

I know the man and know him to be an honest broker.

Have you ever met him?

Better yet, what's your real beef with JetBlue?

I did not write any of the articles, as you can probably tell from my aweful writing ability. I'm just posting some of the interesting ones.

and no....I never interviewed or applied to jetBlue. As far as Neeleman goes......I don't think he even knew about this. If he did, then yes, I think he willingly defrauded your customers.

Sorry to hear about Isabel, I hope things work out for you,

fly safe ,

NYR

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Who Else Gives Personal Info????

question, "Why did we admit to making a mistake and why did we take RESPONSIBILITY for our actions?" Typical politicians and management make excuses and find scapegoats to problems they find themselves in. jetBlue has not acted in typical political fashion.

You admitted mistake, then your company made an excuse.......big difference from taking RESPONSIBILITY.

This looked like JB was going to come out of this in good fashion. Neeleman admitted mistake, said he would not do it again and apologised..................then he said BUT ............etc, etc...........there is no excuse.

Take care guys,

NYR

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Who Else Gives Personal Info????

I'm not making an excuse for the actions of jetBlue, but where does junk mail come from?

You say you are not making an excuse? Look at you subject heading......that is why when jetBlue says they won't give any personal info to a third party, people tend to believe it..........they don't want any more dman junk mail. And they don't want to be in some profile without their knowledge of participation.

Just read what happened and then read your privacy statement.

Go Rangers,

NYR

 

[Snoopy58]

Okay, Jet Blue fouled up. Looks like people will sue for breach of contract. I'm certainly no lawyer, but aren't judgements based on, among other things, damages suffered? So, excluding punative damages, what might a plaintiff base his damages on? What, of measurable value, has he lost? The credit report was always available to the commercial world, and (other than apparently one guy whose name & SSN were shown in the contractor's presentation) didn't get disseminated beyond the contractor that bought it.

I agree the a mistake was made (yeah, agreeing with the JB CEO -- going out a real limb there, NOT), but I'm curious what basis the plaintiffs will have to argue that they were injured. JB didn't follow their privacy policy, yes, but the air travel that was purchased was delivered exactly as promised, and at the end of the day, nobody has lost their identity or is going to get any more junk mail tomorrow than they would have otherwise.

Philosophical question, not a "Jet Blue good / Jet Blue bad" sort of thing.

 

[NYRANGERS]

I don' think an individual could get more than their money back for breach of contract. That said, if you take 5 million itineraries in a class action lawsuit......around $200-$500 dollars a trip it adds up to well over $1 Billion. I have no idea if this would happen, nor do I hope it does...however if it were to happen, I don't know how jetBlue could give up it's revenue for a whole year. This is why I think lame excuses should be avoided. Everyone knows jetBlue was doing a fantastic job, Neeleman needs to find a way to stave off a class action suit.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Here is an indirect way to stop jetBlue's push for unsafe skies............(ie. 8 hour rule extension) yea yea whatever...it's only an exemption for you.....B.S!



U.S. should prosecute JetBlue, privacy group says
September 22, 2003 4:04:00 PM ET



By Andy Sullivan

WASHINGTON, Sept 22 (Reuters) - A privacy-rights group asked U.S. regulators on Monday to prosecute JetBlue Airways Corp.(JBLU) for secretly giving the names of more than a million of its passengers to an anti-terrorism screening program.

JetBlue violated a promise to maintain customer privacy when it gave passenger information to a military contractor last year, the Electronic Privacy Information Center said in a complaint filed with the Federal Trade Commission.

JetBlue apologized last week for handing over passenger names, addresses and phone numbers in an effort to help the U.S. Defense Department identify possible terrorist threats.

According to documents posted on the watchdog site www.dontspyon.us, defense contractor Torch Concepts Inc. crossed passenger lists with additional personal information such as Social Security numbers and income levels in a data-mining program to determine whether passengers could be assessed for a security risk.

Data aggregator Acxiom Corp (ACXM)., which provided the additional information, was also named in the EPIC complaint.

Both companies misled consumers through statements on their Web sites that said they would not share personal information with third parties or give consumers some say in how that information is shared, EPIC said.

"Such action violated the publicly posted privacy policies of both companies and misled consumers in a very unfair and deceptive manner," EPIC staff counsel Marcia Hoffman told reporters in a conference call.

EPIC also asked the Federal Aviation Administration, the Army and the Transportation Security Administration for further information about the program.

An FTC spokesperson declined to comment.

Such use of passenger information is common in the travel industry, according to author and privacy activist Edward Hasbrouck. Reservation firms have provided airline and hotel records on several occasions to government contractors looking to test their screening systems, he said, and much customer data is poorly protected against computer hacking.

"The abuse of privacy by JetBlue was not unusual," said Hasbrouck, who called on Congress to investigate industry practices. "What was unusual is JetBlue actually having a privacy policy."

A JetBlue spokesman did not return a call seeking comment.

An Acxiom spokesman was not immediately available for comment. REUTERS

© 2003 Reuters

 

[Dizel8]

Boy NY, you are just jumping up and down with delightful glee aren't ya Buddy?

May hard times never fall upon such as nice guy as you!

 

[NYRANGERS]

Boy NY, you are just jumping up and down with delightful glee aren't ya Buddy?

May hard times never fall upon such as nice guy as you!

Please........I've been furloughed for almost 2 years and counting. Hard times have fallen.

No glee here, just upset that you guys are trying to change a rule that was made for SAFETY. There is a reason there is an 8 in 24 rule.....usually when a rule is made it is because someone died.

Heck, I'm young. I could probably hack a longer hourly day (for a while) safely, as I am sure you could. Some may not. The rule is there for a reason. We could really stretch this and say you would be jeopardizing the safety of all the people on the ground.( I know, a big stretch).

Anyway, fly safe,

NYR
Rangers were shamed by a 9-1 loss to the Wild (only pre-season though)

 

[Dizel8]

Well, sad to hear of your plight, but still does not change what I posted. Hoping for other to suffer is not something I can condone.

As far as the other topic is concerned, there is a thread going for that, will not reiterate here.

 

[Maj]

NYR,
Interesting article below. Sounds very familiar. Perhaps one organization will stand out which we can all pick apart and criticize for trying to adapt and overcome. But I digress....

Cheers,
Maj (Bruins fan)

NEW YORK (AP) -- NHL teams posted record losses of nearly $300 million last season, according to figures distributed to owners this summer.

That was an increase of 35 percent from the $218 million in operating losses incurred by the league last year.

The losses are blamed on soaring player salaries. Without a salary cap, the NHL spent 76 percent of $1.93 billion in revenue on players salaries and benefits. That is a greater percentage than in the NBA, NFL or major league baseball.

ADVERTISEMENT


``This is a level at which no business can survive,'' Bill Daly, the NHL's chief legal officer, told The Wall Street Journal in an article about league finances. ``The league will lose teams and players will lose jobs if we can't fix this.''

The NHL would not comment further to The Associated Press.

The league will seek what commissioner Gary Bettman calls ``cost certainty,'' in bargaining a new collective agreement with its players association. The current deal expires in September 2004 and there are expectations that negotiations will be stormy, possibly resulting in a strike or lockout.

The NHL locked out players for 103 days in 1994 and reportedly has assembled a $300 million war chest as it prepares for contract talks.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Dizel......Sorry for straying off the subject.


Maj.....I used to go to the Salem MA. Hockey camp every summer,when I was young. It was run by the Bruins....I meet a lot of greats there...Cam, Rick Middleton, Terry O'reilley and some others. It was awesome, so I must admit (even though I think one of the commandments had something to do with.....you can't like a NY team and a Boston team) I like the Bruins.

Sorry for the thread creep......

Safe flying,

NYR

 

[NYRANGERS]

Some good news for JB. Although a class action may hurt.



The FTC has sued several companies in the past for violating privacy promises, though deceptive-trade settlements rarely involve financial penalties on the first offense.

Over the past two years, drug maker Eli Lilly and Co (LLY)., software giant Microsoft Corp (MSFT). and clothes maker Guess Inc. have separately agreed to beef up their computer security and submit to outside oversight to settle charges that they did not protect customer data properly. REUTERS

 

[Redtails]

Have you guys visited this privacy advocacy's web site? He's a dork and calls for both the boycotts of not only jetBlue, but also Delta!!! The root cause of this matter was JetBlue's cooperation with the DOD and the runwaway likes of a third party contractor. Egg in the face, yes, but it doesn't affect our day-to-day operations nor the safe conduct of our flights. The flights I've flown the last two days were both full-- with happy passengers, just like two weeks ago. The stock didn't dump either, only about a buck... There continues to be confidence in our company, especially from the ranks. Additionally, there will be positive news shortly about jetBlue's commitment to our customers; I just wonder how many news stations or Fox reporters will carry this...

 

[AKAAB]

So, now that the error has been discovered, the offending data destroyed, policies bolstered, and the apologies publicly made...just what harm did anyone suffer?

You can file suits for anything you want, but they will be toothless unless you can prove some sort of harm or damage. You say your privacy has been violated? The data has been destroyed! You privacy has been restored and the odds of JB making the same mistake are nil.

So, again, what harm did you suffer? I'm sorry, but claiming they have fed your paranoia of the government probably won't get you very far in front of a judge.

The biggest harm is JB losing its customers' trust. In the JB culture that is tantamount to a disaster, but I have a feeling they will continue to do the right thing by admitting mistakes, and will make amends.

AKAAB

 

[FL000]

I see your point, and so do many other sensible folks. But we're talking about a potential jury pool made of people who are responsible for some of the most ridiculous decisions in the history of jurisprudence: the citizens of the USofA. Remember McDonald's? OJ Simpson? The list goes on. Average Americans love to stick it to "the Man" on behalf of other average Americans.