Jet Blue Pilot Contract

[Snoopy58]

Heard this today, and wondered if somebody at Jet Blue could confirm/deny/illuminate the following:

It was said that pilots at Jet Blue are on 5 year contracts that can be renewed or not at the company's discretion. If they don't want to renew it, it's their option not to, no explanation/reason/justification required. Someone whose contract isn't renewed isn't being "fired," he simply has "completed his contract" and that's that.

Is this accurate? The guy who told me about it had gotten it 2nd or 3rd hand, so he wasn't certain about the details. Clear implications in terms of job security & so forth, obviously, if true.

Not trying to start a rumor here, but just to get the real word.

Thanks in advance,

Snoopy

 

[avgslin]

CEO David Neeleman stated on C-SPAN that their pilots are on 5 year contracts. Since the company is only 3+ years old, no one knows if anyone will be let go after 5 years? We just have to wait and see.

 

[Redtails]

You're correct with the 5-year contract. But in that contract I signed 3 years ago, it also states that FOs will only be paid $43 and CAPTs $78 in their first year of service. So we already had a 32% raise in the middle of our signed contracts. I think these will be addressed soon as we have a couple of pilots coming up to their 5th year. I believe the intent was to keep the initial set of pilots who received their types off the bat for a term of service.

 

[jaxgus]

Contract I Signed

Recently jetBlue offered me an employment contract and I gladly signed it. Paragraph 1 explains the term of the contract and the original thread is correct stating the term is five years. Additionally, the contract stipulates the renewal of the contract, to quote, "Unless either the Airline or the Pilot provides notice within three (3) months of the Agreement expiration date, this Agreement will automatically renew for additional five (5) year periods subject to a revised pay schedule as listed in Addendum A to this agreement."

I am no lawyer, but bottomline the contract continues to renew every five years until I determine it is time to leave jetBlue; not likely, not until 60 at least.

Before the lawyers in the crowd brings this up, "the Airline" also has the ability to terminate the contract between a crewmember and the airline at the expiration of the contract. Ask yourself, why would the company include this in this agreement? jetBlue is all about productivity and "Bringing humanity back to air travel." If we have crewmembers who become non-productive and don't support our values, something which they directly control, the company suffers personally and financially. jetBlue is a family that takes care of its people. This clause ensures our crewmembers have an incentive to remain productive and not turn into "dead wood."

Hopefully, the quote above dispells the rumor we can be fired after five years with no explanation. The compnay must provide in writing that it is not renewing the contract. The only situations I personally believe jetBlue would exercise its option not to renew when it deals with a crewmember with harrassment problems, unsafe flying habits and who don't embrace our values -- SAFETY CARING INTEGRITY FUN PASSION. No compnay can afford the training costs associated with randomly terminating pilot's contracts just becuase they can. For the health of the airline, this clause is available as a last resort to ensure we maintain crewmembers who are here to build a great place to work, which happens to fly aircraft from Point A to B.

 

[Blue Dude]

The five year renewal clause is a fact, and jaxgus has it right: the airline could opt to non-renew a pilot's contract. However, even if a particular pilot was notorious for being "deadwood" (and I don't have anyone specifically in mind), it would be a practical impossibility to get rid of him this way. There is a section of the contract that deals with termination, and it's fairly comprehensive. If a pilot is really screwing up, then he could be terminated without having to wait until the end of the contract. If he's not screwing up that badly but really isn't desireable to keep, then in theory they could be sent packing when his contract is up.

However, I can't think of a better way to destroy morale and practically shoo in a pilot union. Word of a single non-renewal, no matter how "justified" would spread like wildfire and would strike at the heart of pilots' fears of working for a non-union airline: frivolous termination. Even if it's not frivolous, and merely the exercise of a legitimate contract clause, it would be a distinction without a difference. Every pilot from then on would feel the crosshairs on his back going into their renewal period and wonder if he's going to make the cut this time.

Therefore, I don't see anyone ever being non-renewed. If a pilot's conduct is bad enough to non-renew him, it's bad enough to terminate him outright. There's a process for termination that everyone understands and accepts. Merely sent packing after five years and not invited back is not an acceptable way, to most pilots, of ending an employment relationship or a career.

 

[yaks]

Pilot contract

This is a recipe for disaster. You may think the company is wonderful now and I think it is. But down the road, if you do not get rid of this onerous clause, it will come back to haunt you. Remember, you are not just dealing with your management. You must deal with every scumbag manager with an airplane and a plan because that is your competition and that is who your ceo has to compete with.

 

[jetblue320]

Re: Contract I Signed

Recently jetBlue offered me an employment contract and I gladly signed it. Paragraph 1 explains the term of the contract and the original thread is correct stating the term is five years. Additionally, the contract stipulates the renewal of the contract, to quote, "Unless either the Airline or the Pilot provides notice within three (3) months of the Agreement expiration date, this Agreement will automatically renew for additional five (5) year periods subject to a revised pay schedule as listed in Addendum A to this agreement."

I am no lawyer, but bottomline the contract continues to renew every five years until I determine it is time to leave jetBlue; not likely, not until 60 at least.

Before the lawyers in the crowd brings this up, "the Airline" also has the ability to terminate the contract between a crewmember and the airline at the expiration of the contract. Ask yourself, why would the company include this in this agreement? jetBlue is all about productivity and "Bringing humanity back to air travel." If we have crewmembers who become non-productive and don't support our values, something which they directly control, the company suffers personally and financially. jetBlue is a family that takes care of its people. This clause ensures our crewmembers have an incentive to remain productive and not turn into "dead wood."

Hopefully, the quote above dispells the rumor we can be fired after five years with no explanation. The compnay must provide in writing that it is not renewing the contract. The only situations I personally believe jetBlue would exercise its option not to renew when it deals with a crewmember with harrassment problems, unsafe flying habits and who don't embrace our values -- SAFETY CARING INTEGRITY FUN PASSION. No compnay can afford the training costs associated with randomly terminating pilot's contracts just becuase they can. For the health of the airline, this clause is available as a last resort to ensure we maintain crewmembers who are here to build a great place to work, which happens to fly aircraft from Point A to B.

Right on Jaxgus!

The bottom line is that no pilot at jetBlue (that I know of anyway, and I know most of the 700 of them) gives a lot of thought to this contract. What I mean is, they don't live in constant fear of it being not renewed. The daily routine mindset is that this contract is not being held over our heads or being held as a secret weapon in case it's needed. Now I know what some of the unioized pilots out there are thinking at this very moment. They are thinking that we are a bunch of naive fools who will be sorry someday. Well, the naysayers are entitled to their opinions, as am I. My opinion is that if we all stay focused on productivity and like Jaxgus said, don't become dead wood or a safety risk, life at jetBlue will go on for as long as we want it to. As for me, I don't give it much thought at all.

Simple fact: If you are worried about signing it and need to have someone with legal prowess review it, go for it. As an insider I personally wouldn't spend the money or effort. If you are really worried beyond that, don't sign it and go fly elsewhere. You might not be cut out for JB if you are that defensive before you even step on the property.

Fly Safe

 

[AlbieF15]

Without going into a lot of dirty laundry, we've had pilots fired at FedEx since I've been there 18 months.

Some of the firings were about some jumpseat issues that were touched on the boards. The union supported them, and they got their jobs back. However, many of us suspected all this was "posturing" by both sides and figured the guys would be rehired. In any case--they were and life resumes...

Another pilot I saw upgrading to A300 captain during my initial training has been terminated according to scuttlebutt. I'm sure the union will make sure this captain has every legal defense available, however...if the company has a justifiable reason then the union will have to accept the outcome.

I look at a union like a good attorney...there to make sure your RIGHTS are protected in court. However--if you have problems getting the job done or some kind of issues complying with company guidance, a union doesn't guarantee you would keep your job. You still have to do your job professionally and safely along the way...

Hopefully...if you have an ALPA chapter, if you are a "problem child" your local professional standards guys can give you the mentoring and instruction you need to do your job properly. It seems to me the union has a vested interest in representing good employees, and does not want to waste all its time and resources protecting the bottom 5% who create problems.

I can't speak for JetBlue, but it does seem Al Spain, Lanny McAndrew, etc have tried to start with a clean slate and treat their employees fairly from the get-go. Over time perhaps relationships will go south between pilots and mgt, but I don't think you have to walk in the door going "well, they were B@stards at US Air, they were B@stards at MESA (or wherever), and I know these guys will nail me too". Until there are problems, why not give these guys the benefit of the doubt? They gave a pay raise days after 9/11, distribute profit sharing checks every year, and thus far have done everything they said they would do for the pilot force. Why punish these guys who seem to be trying to get it right for other's mistakes? It sort of reminds me of the bitter ex-wife or ex-husband who punishes the new spouse for actions he/she never took!

Just my 2 cents....and as always...I may be wrong.

 

[jetblue320]

I can't speak for JetBlue, but it does seem Al Spain, Lanny McAndrew, etc have tried to start with a clean slate and treat their employees fairly from the get-go. Over time perhaps relationships will go south between pilots and mgt, but I don't think you have to walk in the door going "well, they were B@stards at US Air, they were B@stards at MESA (or wherever), and I know these guys will nail me too". Until there are problems, why not give these guys the benefit of the doubt? They gave a pay raise days after 9/11, distribute profit sharing checks every year, and thus far have done everything they said they would do for the pilot force. Why punish these guys who seem to be trying to get it right for other's mistakes? It sort of reminds me of the bitter ex-wife or ex-husband who punishes the new spouse for actions he/she never took!

Just my 2 cents....and as always...I may be wrong.

Albie,

another right on to you too! Al Spain, et al, have never given us any reason to doubt them. These are honorable men, without a doubt. So until that day comes (and we all hope it doesn't, and "I" know it won't) we won't cross that bridge of needing someone else fight our battles for us. Truth is, there are no battles, at least not any big ones. And there are hundreds of us at JB aimed at keeping it that way!

Thanks for the 2 cents worth!

 

[FSB99]

i'm curious, though. i guess, since the contract is a 5 year term, then a pilot is unable to resign of his own accord during those 5 years? or, if he does choose to leave, what's the penalty for breaking the contract?