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Jet Blue Growth
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That's 83.3 a month, not impossible. I see a few guys doing that but the key is vacation and training that reduces the average considerably
To do 1000 a year you need to consistantly do 90 a month on average, allowing for time off. From what I understand about JB's pay scale the overtime kicks in at 70 hours, so their might be a few guys doing the 1000, to pick up a few dollars
To do 1000 a year you need to consistantly do 90 a month on average, allowing for time off. From what I understand about JB's pay scale the overtime kicks in at 70 hours, so their might be a few guys doing the 1000, to pick up a few dollars
Jeff G
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You can try to pick up time, but it doesn't always work out. And if you can't pick up all that much time, it's sometimes better to sit it out that month and enjoy the time off, since you can't reasonably get to pick up trips at premium pay. Training and vacation (and reserve) months are like that. But, due to the nature of the pay scale, every hour you pick up over 70 in a given month is paid at time and a half, which is a lot of incentive if you can get the time. Gravy.
Given that some months will be slow and some months will be crazy, depending on how the schedule pans out and what you can or are willing to pick up, it still only averages out to maybe 75 to 80 hrs a month. We work hard, but not *that* hard.
Given that some months will be slow and some months will be crazy, depending on how the schedule pans out and what you can or are willing to pick up, it still only averages out to maybe 75 to 80 hrs a month. We work hard, but not *that* hard.
pilotyip
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Hard Pay
I was refering to "Hard Pay" not like working hard in Ad Hoc, but hard pay in terms of flying most of the hours for which you are paid. Even flying 75-80 hours per month puts you in the top of the industry at 900-960 per year. that is a lot of flying. That is the porductivity advantage JB has over the majors.
I was refering to "Hard Pay" not like working hard in Ad Hoc, but hard pay in terms of flying most of the hours for which you are paid. Even flying 75-80 hours per month puts you in the top of the industry at 900-960 per year. that is a lot of flying. That is the porductivity advantage JB has over the majors.
Jeff G
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Re: Definition of "Working Hard"?
I hope that comment was with tongue firmly planted in cheek, but I couldn't tell from your post.
Yes, that's 75 to 80 hrs actual block. And no, that's not a particularly hard schedule, to my mind. 95 hrs block time and I'm ready for a break, though. The paycheck can be pretty spectacular if it works out.
Remember, we don't have to fly 1 to 2 hrs inbound, sit for 2-3 hours for the sort, then fly outbound another 1-2 hours once a night like some pilots I could mention.
It's more like fly three 2 1/2 hr legs, separated by 40 minute turns. Or fly one leg transcon and go to the hotel. Or fly four legs up and down the California coast. There's not a lot of sitting around, and mostly when you go to work, you fly. We fly those 80 hrs or more and also get 13 to 18 days off a month. The schedules are generally very productive and the more senior you are, the better it gets. It's possible to work 11 days a month and still fly 85 hours, if you do it right, and the most senior pilots do just that. But on the other hand, I dropped enough trips one month last fall and used up some time off that I was paid for the full month (77 hrs) but only flew 43 hrs in three three-day trips. A cake walk.
I'm kinda junior, but this month I still have 16 days off and scheduled to fly 86 hrs. Including premium pay and holiday pay, it'll work out to about 97 hrs of pay for the month. My original schedule had about 77 hrs on it (and would have paid 83), but I traded for trips that worked about the same number of days but flew more. It's not nearly as hard as it sounds. You just have to space the trips appropriately to avoid burnout. Ask me in 20 years though, whether I'll still want to pick up that much more time.
MailMan said:
I hope that comment was with tongue firmly planted in cheek, but I couldn't tell from your post.
Yes, that's 75 to 80 hrs actual block. And no, that's not a particularly hard schedule, to my mind. 95 hrs block time and I'm ready for a break, though. The paycheck can be pretty spectacular if it works out.
Remember, we don't have to fly 1 to 2 hrs inbound, sit for 2-3 hours for the sort, then fly outbound another 1-2 hours once a night like some pilots I could mention.
It's more like fly three 2 1/2 hr legs, separated by 40 minute turns. Or fly one leg transcon and go to the hotel. Or fly four legs up and down the California coast. There's not a lot of sitting around, and mostly when you go to work, you fly. We fly those 80 hrs or more and also get 13 to 18 days off a month. The schedules are generally very productive and the more senior you are, the better it gets. It's possible to work 11 days a month and still fly 85 hours, if you do it right, and the most senior pilots do just that. But on the other hand, I dropped enough trips one month last fall and used up some time off that I was paid for the full month (77 hrs) but only flew 43 hrs in three three-day trips. A cake walk.I'm kinda junior, but this month I still have 16 days off and scheduled to fly 86 hrs. Including premium pay and holiday pay, it'll work out to about 97 hrs of pay for the month. My original schedule had about 77 hrs on it (and would have paid 83), but I traded for trips that worked about the same number of days but flew more. It's not nearly as hard as it sounds. You just have to space the trips appropriately to avoid burnout. Ask me in 20 years though, whether I'll still want to pick up that much more time.
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Jeff G
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MailMan said:
I see you changed your original post. I liked the first one better. I'm not going to get into a "my contract is better than yours" debate. Let's just say that hub cargo operations are sufficiently different from point-to-point passenger operations that we're going to have different schedules and different methods of determining pay. Note that I chose to pick up more time for the same time off. If you're happier sitting in the La-Z-Boy, then more power to you. You've found the right job. I prefer to work when I'm at work.
This was uncalled for, and wasn't in your original post. I don't have to fly overtime to make ends meet. As I said, it's gravy, and the payscale rewards any extra flying that you pick up with time and a half. If I can do that and still have 16 days off, that's not exactly sacrificing my family on the altar of greed. Maybe you're financially independent, but if you look around there are a lot of people who are out of work. Maybe I thought it was a good idea to use that "gravy" to build up a sufficient nest egg so that if something really bad happens (furlough, accident, loss of medical), I'll be able to keep the house and the bills paid for a long, long time while I recoup or go back to college for a second career. I'm not servicing multiple alimonies here. I've only been married once, am still married to her (12 years) and plan to stay married to her until one of us dies. Your comment was in poor taste.
Skank
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Jeff...
Disregard those thoughtless comments from that jack-"ask". Your rebuttal was right on target.
I think what we see here is one of the fundamental reasons that places like JB are doing well while traditiontal carriers are scrambling.
Now if that isn't a little fuel for the ol' yulelog, I don't know what is. (My apologies in advance for all the tired insults this all will draw...)
Merry Christmas to all you believers..........
HO HO HO....!
Disregard those thoughtless comments from that jack-"ask". Your rebuttal was right on target.
I think what we see here is one of the fundamental reasons that places like JB are doing well while traditiontal carriers are scrambling.
Now if that isn't a little fuel for the ol' yulelog, I don't know what is. (My apologies in advance for all the tired insults this all will draw...)
Merry Christmas to all you believers..........
HO HO HO....!
SpeedBird
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Mailman
Don't knock what Jeff G does until you've tried it.
One thing that stands out in your post is the difference in productivity between you and jeff. While that may not mean a hill of beans to you, as a significant shareholder in jetBlue, jeff gets rewarded twice for his efforts.
While you sit in your easy chair producing nothing but methane gas for the next cabin pressure change, jeff's helping his company produce more dollars in revenue. Something this industry has a big problem doing these days.
After 20 years of such activity, jeff can sell his shares for a king's ransom.
Don't knock what Jeff G does until you've tried it.
One thing that stands out in your post is the difference in productivity between you and jeff. While that may not mean a hill of beans to you, as a significant shareholder in jetBlue, jeff gets rewarded twice for his efforts.
While you sit in your easy chair producing nothing but methane gas for the next cabin pressure change, jeff's helping his company produce more dollars in revenue. Something this industry has a big problem doing these days.
After 20 years of such activity, jeff can sell his shares for a king's ransom.
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AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
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The beauty of this job is there is something out there for everybody.
As a Fedex guy, I can tell you unequivically I HATE going to the hub to lounge in a recliner, watch a movie, or sleep in a sleep room. 2-3 hours of sleep is just enough to completely screw up my sleep pattern and make me miserable. I also get "bed-head" that will scare children and animals when I grab some ZZZs during those turns. The social scene at 2 am is neat--seeing all you old buddies as they come and go, but I still don't like like the graveyard shift. So...after a year of experimenting I try to bid day flights and avoid the night hub act. Long term--I want the MD-11...so I can fly 6-15 hours international then rack in a hotel 24-36 hours to recover. My best friend at FedEx (who helped get me hired) has NO issues with hub turning, and he loves the short leg in and rack time before the departure leg. He is hoping for an A300 (which does mostly domestic hub turns and some intra Europe trips) for his next upgrade. To each his own....
As for chastising a Jetblue guy for picking up some extra trips, YGTBSM! There are tons of guys at FedEx on EVERY seat that live to pick up extra trips at 150% pay. Draft and volunteer are controversial subjects, but the contract says its within the rights of the company and the lineholder to use it as required. However, any chance those of us in the bottom 10% of the seniority have of upgrading to a right seat are impacted by every trip these guys pick up. Carryover is another issue--some guys at FDX knock themselves out working extra days at straight pay, much less the draft/volunteer premium! So...I'm not criticising anybody, but getting on the moral high ground as a FDX employee and slamming a JB guy for grabbing some extra coin is the pot calling the kettle black.
Comparing FDX lines to pax lines is silly as well. FDX sells RELIABILITY. Reliability is expensive, and requires overmanning each hub with some extra aircrew to handle airplane/aircrew fallout. So...I've had a few trips where I was paid to hang out in a hotel or hub (hotel and airport standby). Sure--its a great deal...but it is there because we offer a different product. The guy who flies from BHM to MEM and back every night likely doesn't fly but 20 hours of block a month. However--if he doesn't live in BHM however, he's away from home for 5 days.....just like the DAL, SWA, or UAL pilot on a five day trip. We do have some GREAT deals at FDX here and there, but I don't think getting to drool and snore on a recliner from 1230 am until 300 am is any great recruiting point for the air cargo business.
As a Fedex guy, I can tell you unequivically I HATE going to the hub to lounge in a recliner, watch a movie, or sleep in a sleep room. 2-3 hours of sleep is just enough to completely screw up my sleep pattern and make me miserable. I also get "bed-head" that will scare children and animals when I grab some ZZZs during those turns. The social scene at 2 am is neat--seeing all you old buddies as they come and go, but I still don't like like the graveyard shift. So...after a year of experimenting I try to bid day flights and avoid the night hub act. Long term--I want the MD-11...so I can fly 6-15 hours international then rack in a hotel 24-36 hours to recover. My best friend at FedEx (who helped get me hired) has NO issues with hub turning, and he loves the short leg in and rack time before the departure leg. He is hoping for an A300 (which does mostly domestic hub turns and some intra Europe trips) for his next upgrade. To each his own....
As for chastising a Jetblue guy for picking up some extra trips, YGTBSM! There are tons of guys at FedEx on EVERY seat that live to pick up extra trips at 150% pay. Draft and volunteer are controversial subjects, but the contract says its within the rights of the company and the lineholder to use it as required. However, any chance those of us in the bottom 10% of the seniority have of upgrading to a right seat are impacted by every trip these guys pick up. Carryover is another issue--some guys at FDX knock themselves out working extra days at straight pay, much less the draft/volunteer premium! So...I'm not criticising anybody, but getting on the moral high ground as a FDX employee and slamming a JB guy for grabbing some extra coin is the pot calling the kettle black.
Comparing FDX lines to pax lines is silly as well. FDX sells RELIABILITY. Reliability is expensive, and requires overmanning each hub with some extra aircrew to handle airplane/aircrew fallout. So...I've had a few trips where I was paid to hang out in a hotel or hub (hotel and airport standby). Sure--its a great deal...but it is there because we offer a different product. The guy who flies from BHM to MEM and back every night likely doesn't fly but 20 hours of block a month. However--if he doesn't live in BHM however, he's away from home for 5 days.....just like the DAL, SWA, or UAL pilot on a five day trip. We do have some GREAT deals at FDX here and there, but I don't think getting to drool and snore on a recliner from 1230 am until 300 am is any great recruiting point for the air cargo business.
SpeedBird
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Mailman
Some cheap advice for you.
If you want to come on these boards and state your opinions, then be ready to for people to respond to them, perhaps in ways you don't expect. The "jack-a$$" comments about your posts are just that...comments. Sound familiar?
I personally took your message in a negative way and therefore had to add my two cents in reponse. Sorry to ruffle your feathers, but I was just returning the favor.
Perhaps next time we can learn from each other in more productive and respectable manner.
Merry Christmas to you and yours...I mean it.
Some cheap advice for you.
If you want to come on these boards and state your opinions, then be ready to for people to respond to them, perhaps in ways you don't expect. The "jack-a$$" comments about your posts are just that...comments. Sound familiar?
I personally took your message in a negative way and therefore had to add my two cents in reponse. Sorry to ruffle your feathers, but I was just returning the favor.
Perhaps next time we can learn from each other in more productive and respectable manner.
Merry Christmas to you and yours...I mean it.
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justApilot
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Southbound
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schedules and growth
I was in LGB the other day and didn't realize JB did the amount they do already. 7 departures to OAK soon to be 9, 3 to LAS, 5 to JFK and so on. I think it's great.
My question, there seem to be lots of not so typical departure and arrival times on the timetable. I understand the red-eyes from DEN, LGB, OAK, SEA to the east coast. That makes sense. But how is the demand for the 3 a.m. departure from JFK to San Juan or the 12:25 arrival into Salt Lake from LGB? Are these mainly repos or do the loads justify the departure/arrival times? It seems like entering a new market would be tough without flying in the middle of the night?
Also, are you guys and gals happy with how the all night legs are placed into your monthly schedules??
Cheers
I was in LGB the other day and didn't realize JB did the amount they do already. 7 departures to OAK soon to be 9, 3 to LAS, 5 to JFK and so on. I think it's great.
My question, there seem to be lots of not so typical departure and arrival times on the timetable. I understand the red-eyes from DEN, LGB, OAK, SEA to the east coast. That makes sense. But how is the demand for the 3 a.m. departure from JFK to San Juan or the 12:25 arrival into Salt Lake from LGB? Are these mainly repos or do the loads justify the departure/arrival times? It seems like entering a new market would be tough without flying in the middle of the night?
Also, are you guys and gals happy with how the all night legs are placed into your monthly schedules??
Cheers
Race Pilot
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JayDub
Make it so.
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My $.02
Mailman,
I am glad you like the sitting instead of working routine, for the good of the rest of us. I have waited in some of the best and worst places in the world. I have never gotten so fat, been so tired, or especially so bored as when I had to wait on somebody else. It absolutely sucked for me, so I am very glad I won't have to volunteer to do it again, thanks to you and anyone else that appreciates this enough to work for Fedex. A few months was enough for me (of course not for Fedex) , let alone years.
No, the pilots are not required to clean the cabin. Flight attendants are. A lot of pilots, with encouragement from mgmt., help them. This falls under the "never ask anyone do something I wouldn't do" category. However quite a few don't clean cabins.
As far as the night trips, it helps our productivity. I think we averaged something like 11.5 hrs./ airplane last month. The difference with jetBlue is, you can be senior enough to bid for or against those (with success) relatively soon.
For me, working here is a quality of life issue. I would never make so much, working so little. I am not like Jeff G, I take everyday off I can. I would imagine I average 18-19 days off a month. I still get in 70 hours a month, no sweat.
I wish you and all the rest at Fedex well. I usually try to use your product. I just don't want to do your kind of flying again.
Respectfully,
JayDub
Mailman,
I am glad you like the sitting instead of working routine, for the good of the rest of us. I have waited in some of the best and worst places in the world. I have never gotten so fat, been so tired, or especially so bored as when I had to wait on somebody else. It absolutely sucked for me, so I am very glad I won't have to volunteer to do it again, thanks to you and anyone else that appreciates this enough to work for Fedex. A few months was enough for me (of course not for Fedex) , let alone years.
No, the pilots are not required to clean the cabin. Flight attendants are. A lot of pilots, with encouragement from mgmt., help them. This falls under the "never ask anyone do something I wouldn't do" category. However quite a few don't clean cabins.
As far as the night trips, it helps our productivity. I think we averaged something like 11.5 hrs./ airplane last month. The difference with jetBlue is, you can be senior enough to bid for or against those (with success) relatively soon.
For me, working here is a quality of life issue. I would never make so much, working so little. I am not like Jeff G, I take everyday off I can. I would imagine I average 18-19 days off a month. I still get in 70 hours a month, no sweat.
I wish you and all the rest at Fedex well. I usually try to use your product. I just don't want to do your kind of flying again.
Respectfully,
JayDub
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