Jet Blue = Good Stuff

[A350]

The difference is that JB pays 5% profit sharing even when we lost money.

A350

 

[Splert]

So are you

My daddy is bigger than your daddy. That is all you have?

PSIA is 12.7% plus profit sharing into the retirement plan.

Our is 5% plus a fixed 5% PS into the retirement plan.

You are misleading the readers of this board.

 

[Blue Dude]

Let's compare apples to apples here. 5% minimum profit sharing going to retirement, with anything over 5% awarded in cash, isn't what is generally understood as profit sharing. So let's not call it profit sharing, because as A350 points out, it's paid anyway. Instead let's call it what it is: a yearly 401k incentive bonus. As such, it's not "retirement", it's a revocable award that's supposed to motivate us to make money. That's not a bad thing, but it's not something to hang your hat on. I would prefer something that's contractually guaranteed and at least industry standard. Industry standard is a profit sharing award on top of our retirement, not in place of it. Industry standard is also ~13%, contractually guaranteed, not 10% (5% matched) "outside" of our agreement, but part of it, and not subject to "cancellation at any time".

If anyone has a way to do that without a union, I'd be grateful to hear about it. Since we were promised a workaround almost two years ago, and haven't heard anything about it since, I must assume that there isn't one and will vote in my best financial interests.

 

[Splert]

The difference is that JB pays 5% profit sharing even when we lost money.

A350

...and a 5% 401K match for a total of 10%.

When did JetBlue have a operating loss after unilaterally changing the PS plan? We haven't.

Our peers on average enjoy a minimum of 12.7% and then profit sharing when generating operating profit.

This year the DC should be 20% yet 10% is better for some reason or another.

 

[av8tor4239]

in fact it is below average We are 2.7 points plus profit sharing behind. This year we are 10 percentage points behind. That is $10,000 on a hundred thousand of income.

.

So you are willing to sell your soul to "IMPERIAL ALPA" to get your 2.7 points and give up all the benefits of our current situation???

I wish you the best of luck, but my vote is NO!

 

[B6Busdriver]

The difference is that JB pays 5% profit sharing even when we lost money.

A350

The biggest difference is PSIA is 13% rain or shine, good times or bad, profit or loss. In times of profit our peer set still get 13% + profit sharing. If you have 20 years left you are missing out on 100's of thousands of dollars. But folks like Cowboy are just happy to have a job...it's better than Mesa.

 

[Splert]

Let's compare apples to apples here. 5% minimum profit sharing going to retirement, with anything over 5% awarded in cash, isn't what is generally understood as profit sharing. So let's not call it profit sharing, because as A350 points out, it's paid anyway. Instead let's call it what it is: a yearly 401k incentive bonus. As such, it's not "retirement", it's a revocable award that's supposed to motivate us to make money. That's not a bad thing, but it's not something to hang your hat on. I would prefer something that's contractually guaranteed and at least industry standard. Industry standard is a profit sharing award on top of our retirement, not in place of it. Industry standard is also ~13%, contractually guaranteed, not 10% (5% matched) "outside" of our agreement, but part of it, and not subject to "cancellation at any time".

If anyone has a way to do that without a union, I'd be grateful to hear about it. Since we were promised a workaround almost two years ago, and haven't heard anything about it since, I must assume that there isn't one and will vote in my best financial interests.

The work around is a restricted stock unit that we hold til retirement or sell and pocket the cash because we have no avenue to transfer the funds into the 401k.

ELT doesn't even hold stock more than a week or two after it vest but they are doing to sell us on RSU being a retirement work around.

Garbage.

 

[Blue Dude]

Cowboy, if you like, you can deduct 1.95% dues from retirement to approximate the cost borne by pilots for ALPA representation. Considering that dues are tax deductible, and retirement is tax deferred, it's not actually a bad notion. So, sure we're close on retirement, seen in isolation.

Then you factor in:
None of our retirement, even the 401k match, is within the scope of our PEA's.

Neither are any of our benefits, which are about right for airport ops, but not for career pilots. This includes medical, disability (short and long term), and survivor's benefits.

M&A is included in our PEA's, but it has massive holes in it that have been detailed elsewhere.

And scope is non-existent, and perhaps can't be without making the PVC a de facto bargaining unit. I have no idea where that's taking us, but the history there isn't good.

We have nobody to call except a company lawyer in case of an incident or accident. And their track record of looking after the interests of the pilots involved can be charitably characterized as inconsistent. Safety department, corporate security and related departments at JetBlue: all jokes. Who's looking out for your interests?

====

So even after our dues are "paid for" with less retirement, everything else I mentioned is gravy, all-inclusive. And all unambiguously legal and contractually enforceable, unlike whatever they're trying to cook up with the PVC. That's some gravy.

If you have an alternative to status quo that provides the "gravy", I'd be glad to hear it.

 

[Blue Dude]

So you are willing to sell your soul to "IMPERIAL ALPA" to get your 2.7 points and give up all the benefits of our current situation???

I wish you the best of luck, but my vote is NO!

Which "benefits" are those? And are they worth the price we're paying?

 

[Blue Dude]

The work around is a restricted stock unit that we hold til retirement or sell and pocket the cash because we have no avenue to transfer the funds into the 401k.

I haven't seen a proposal, much less contract language on this issue. In any case, if the work around is not tax deferred in a qualified retirement plan, it will have to be a lot larger than 3% to make up for that fact. More like 7 to 10%. You're right: we won't have a choice but to sell immediately. The risk of holding a single stock, especially the same company as we work for, as a major component of our retirement plan is way too high.