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Jet Airways
- Thread starter blingair
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blingair
I'm your boy Carl
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 487
As far I as know all expat hiring for Indian carriers is done by head hunters or recruiting agencies. A French Canadian firm called Aero-Personal is one of the main companies for Jet Airways (JA). Not to be confused with Aero Professionals in Europe (I think) which recruits for Vietnam and other countries.
JA and Deccan/King Fisher are very similar in the way they are run and both have some good and bad features when compared against one another.
The Jet contract keeps getting worse and worse as the economy tanks and they are trying to use it to their advantage. Some examples are, a year ago the pay was $8500 with OT over 80. Now its $8000 with OT being flown but not paid or not paid on time. Vacation has been reduced from 28 days off per year to 12. Travel home used to be door to door but its now only to a JA destination. 10 sick days has been reduced to 5. No hotels and you find your own housing and the housing allowance has been reduced. Check with the recruiters for the latest contract. And do be aware that even though you will sign a contract for JA, through Aero Personal, you will be required to sign a new one in Mumbai which could be different and is the "real" and binding contract.
As for life in India, its 180 degrees difference from life in the states. The biggest thing is that the Indian aviation industry is extremely corrupt. It effects everything from pilot training or complete lack there of, safety and the governments micro managing of aviation. Any rejected take off, miss approach/go around, air turn back etc. usually requires that the crew goes to a PIB or Pilot Inquiry Board. Sort of a court room type deal and is a huge pain in the back side.
So basically you show up to India, get thrown immediately into the left seat ("dont worry the F/O will take care of everything" is a very common phrase even though they have very little experience). And you're on your own in trying to find how things work in India both at work and at "home."
Expats are a required evil. They need them for now but are trying to reduce their dependence on them. As for most expat F/Os, they are gone already. The wide body guys are being farmed out to rural countries trying to expand. The native pilots resent the expats because of our pay and arent afraid to show you so. And since the Indians are very non-confrontational, they rarely, if ever, question a superior or talk as equals. This for me was very hard to deal with. CRM truly stands for Captains Right Mofo. And if you ask your chief pilot a question about something, theres a good chance it will be seen as a challenge to his authority and you get the scarlet Trouble Maker.
Your required to find your own housing which isn't easy. Finding shoe laces over there is a all day affair. Not to mention that you work 6 days a week.
There is a great deal of culture shock that really doesnt wear off. I compare living in India to prison. You know its probably bad but you have no idea until you get there. And after a few brief excursions out into the population, you quickly realize that the relative peace and quiet of your hotel/apartment is better than any tourist trap or ashram. So you go from hotel room to the airport and vice versa and avoid the polluted outside like a plague.
The minimum you can work is two long months on and two weeks off. But both companies like their pilots to stay for many more months at a time. The time crawls by. Its even worse if you have a family or life in the states. Going on block off is the best thing on earth, like the last day of school! But it takes several days of constant travel and about 3 days of wicked jet lag to recover. But the US will never seem so sweet and you do discover how good we have it here.
Of course this is all my opinion and seen through my own eyes. There are a few people who say they love it. That could very well be true. Since people have quit there jobs and are already over there and have a specific goal of paying down debt or trying to pay off some of their mortgages, they try to stick it out. The average expat stays 8 months. The longest I've personal seen stay is 3 years and this guy is nuts! But most expats will tell you what I'm telling you.
Its a tough call to make. The money is attractive but it is earned in a brutal manner.
I'd be more than willing to help anyone through the decision process and if you decide to go I'll help you in any way possible to get you over there and give you all the hints and secrets to surviving India.
And by the way, as of last night, most of the expats I know have not been paid OT since November which means that they have flown 120 hours for free.
Good luck.
B.
JA and Deccan/King Fisher are very similar in the way they are run and both have some good and bad features when compared against one another.
The Jet contract keeps getting worse and worse as the economy tanks and they are trying to use it to their advantage. Some examples are, a year ago the pay was $8500 with OT over 80. Now its $8000 with OT being flown but not paid or not paid on time. Vacation has been reduced from 28 days off per year to 12. Travel home used to be door to door but its now only to a JA destination. 10 sick days has been reduced to 5. No hotels and you find your own housing and the housing allowance has been reduced. Check with the recruiters for the latest contract. And do be aware that even though you will sign a contract for JA, through Aero Personal, you will be required to sign a new one in Mumbai which could be different and is the "real" and binding contract.
As for life in India, its 180 degrees difference from life in the states. The biggest thing is that the Indian aviation industry is extremely corrupt. It effects everything from pilot training or complete lack there of, safety and the governments micro managing of aviation. Any rejected take off, miss approach/go around, air turn back etc. usually requires that the crew goes to a PIB or Pilot Inquiry Board. Sort of a court room type deal and is a huge pain in the back side.
So basically you show up to India, get thrown immediately into the left seat ("dont worry the F/O will take care of everything" is a very common phrase even though they have very little experience). And you're on your own in trying to find how things work in India both at work and at "home."
Expats are a required evil. They need them for now but are trying to reduce their dependence on them. As for most expat F/Os, they are gone already. The wide body guys are being farmed out to rural countries trying to expand. The native pilots resent the expats because of our pay and arent afraid to show you so. And since the Indians are very non-confrontational, they rarely, if ever, question a superior or talk as equals. This for me was very hard to deal with. CRM truly stands for Captains Right Mofo. And if you ask your chief pilot a question about something, theres a good chance it will be seen as a challenge to his authority and you get the scarlet Trouble Maker.
Your required to find your own housing which isn't easy. Finding shoe laces over there is a all day affair. Not to mention that you work 6 days a week.
There is a great deal of culture shock that really doesnt wear off. I compare living in India to prison. You know its probably bad but you have no idea until you get there. And after a few brief excursions out into the population, you quickly realize that the relative peace and quiet of your hotel/apartment is better than any tourist trap or ashram. So you go from hotel room to the airport and vice versa and avoid the polluted outside like a plague.
The minimum you can work is two long months on and two weeks off. But both companies like their pilots to stay for many more months at a time. The time crawls by. Its even worse if you have a family or life in the states. Going on block off is the best thing on earth, like the last day of school! But it takes several days of constant travel and about 3 days of wicked jet lag to recover. But the US will never seem so sweet and you do discover how good we have it here.
Of course this is all my opinion and seen through my own eyes. There are a few people who say they love it. That could very well be true. Since people have quit there jobs and are already over there and have a specific goal of paying down debt or trying to pay off some of their mortgages, they try to stick it out. The average expat stays 8 months. The longest I've personal seen stay is 3 years and this guy is nuts! But most expats will tell you what I'm telling you.
Its a tough call to make. The money is attractive but it is earned in a brutal manner.
I'd be more than willing to help anyone through the decision process and if you decide to go I'll help you in any way possible to get you over there and give you all the hints and secrets to surviving India.
And by the way, as of last night, most of the expats I know have not been paid OT since November which means that they have flown 120 hours for free.
Good luck.
B.
Last edited:
currycarrier
Say Again ?
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Posts
- 4
Agree with Bling
As Bling has written, This is life at JetAirways. One additional marvel is your F/O. They are very book smart, graduated college, reasonably intelligent and arrogance is in no short supply! Also they have 250 hours of cessna 172 time ! This is their first job ! most avoid showers and toothbrushes and they are really the only ones that can understand the hinglish that ATC speaks.......anyone thinking of heading over is welcome to contact me as well with any sort of questions. For some "IT IS FINE"
As Bling has written, This is life at JetAirways. One additional marvel is your F/O. They are very book smart, graduated college, reasonably intelligent and arrogance is in no short supply! Also they have 250 hours of cessna 172 time ! This is their first job ! most avoid showers and toothbrushes and they are really the only ones that can understand the hinglish that ATC speaks.......anyone thinking of heading over is welcome to contact me as well with any sort of questions. For some "IT IS FINE"
blingair
I'm your boy Carl
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 487
Actual conversation between me and a AME (mechanic) one day:
ME: "So what happened to the airplane?"
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"Uh, ya, the last captain told me that they had a flame out in cruise and plus all that oil coming out of the cowling and running onto the ramp has got to be a clue."
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"You know, flame out...when the engine stops, quits working, takes the day off, flame out."
AME:"Yes Flame out."
ME:"So what was the problem."
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"What do you think is the problem with the engine and what do you intend to do with it."
AME:"Captain? There is no problem"
ME:...sound of grunting and cursing throw teeth. "I'm not taking this airplane until it has had a thorough inspection. Sorry."
AME:"But Captain, the passengers are all on board.
(40C. 90% Humidity). "It is fine." Bobble, bobble.
This happens A LOT!
They need to have India strength Pepto! I got wicked sick one day while trying to be nice to our driver who was so excited to show me his favourite tea stand- WHAT UP SHURESH! Sorry, had to throw that prop up. Anyways, although you get accustomed to constantly being sick (you will go on antibiotics within three days of arriving in country), this tea stand got me the worst sick I ever thought I could be. Sweats. Chills. Sometimes at the same time. Hurry and craap yourself silly so you can get up and turn around and puke in the toilet or just get the bucket between your legs and have at it. Of course I was granted one sick day off so I had the pleasure of messing myself 4 times that day. Twice in the cockpit. It is fine.
ME: "So what happened to the airplane?"
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"Uh, ya, the last captain told me that they had a flame out in cruise and plus all that oil coming out of the cowling and running onto the ramp has got to be a clue."
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"You know, flame out...when the engine stops, quits working, takes the day off, flame out."
AME:"Yes Flame out."
ME:"So what was the problem."
AME:"Captain?"
ME:"What do you think is the problem with the engine and what do you intend to do with it."
AME:"Captain? There is no problem"
ME:...sound of grunting and cursing throw teeth. "I'm not taking this airplane until it has had a thorough inspection. Sorry."
AME:"But Captain, the passengers are all on board.
(40C. 90% Humidity). "It is fine." Bobble, bobble.
This happens A LOT!
They need to have India strength Pepto! I got wicked sick one day while trying to be nice to our driver who was so excited to show me his favourite tea stand- WHAT UP SHURESH! Sorry, had to throw that prop up. Anyways, although you get accustomed to constantly being sick (you will go on antibiotics within three days of arriving in country), this tea stand got me the worst sick I ever thought I could be. Sweats. Chills. Sometimes at the same time. Hurry and craap yourself silly so you can get up and turn around and puke in the toilet or just get the bucket between your legs and have at it. Of course I was granted one sick day off so I had the pleasure of messing myself 4 times that day. Twice in the cockpit. It is fine.
freightdogfred
Malcontent
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Posts
- 990
I remember when I flew freight, we had an Air India contract that went CDG-Mumbai-Delhi. I've been a lot of places, but I've never seen slums like those next to that runway in Mumbai. The stuff Haitians would throw away those people were using as roofs and walls...rotten wood, old tin, cardboard. When I asked out limo driver why he was wearing sunglasses at night he said he had eye infections. (Pink eye) Seems at any give time 30% of the populace has it. In Delhi, among all the cows wandering on the highway on the way to the hotel (why don't they tie them up?) I saw a guy who looking liked he was sleeping, right on the side of the road. I thought "that's an odd place to sleep." Turns out he wasn't sleeping....
Out of curiousity, what airframes are they hiring for at 8 grand a month?
Out of curiousity, what airframes are they hiring for at 8 grand a month?
blingair
I'm your boy Carl
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 487
The main aircraft that JA and King Fisher need pilots for are ATRs. Its a little crazy over there right now (more than usual) because they are trying to find out what works and what doesn't. They are cutting many routes yet they have new aircraft that cant be returned coming in and sitting on the ramp.
The Chairman of JA has said that within 5-7 years, he hopes to have only Indian crews flying his airplanes.
The Chairman of JA has said that within 5-7 years, he hopes to have only Indian crews flying his airplanes.
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