JBLU in hot water with FAA

[DIAMONDDD]

Probably because the moderator works for jB.

FJ

Nah, I'm guessing it was this quote from him on another thread:

"Probably washed out of the Cessna Private pilot course and was recently jilted by his gay lover."


Other than this one bad reply by him, he has been one of the most respectful, useful contributors on this forum. Just this one reply. I'm sure he was just having an "off" day and will be back true to form, good as new in a jiffy. He will be adding intelligent, helpful information that we all can respect and enjoy.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Nah, I'm guessing it was this quote from him on another thread:

"Probably washed out of the Cessna Private pilot course and was recently jilted by his gay lover."


Other than this one bad reply by him, he has been one of the most respectful, useful contributors on this forum. Just this one reply. I'm sure he was just having an "off" day and will be back true to form, good as new in a jiffy. He will be adding intelligent, helpful information that we all can respect and enjoy.

You aren't serious I hope.

 

[3BCat]

were these scheduled flights, all cargo flights or charter flights? Do you know?

Thanks in advance.

They gathered data on scheduled flights, operated with the knowledge and approval of the FAA.

It wouldn't surprise me if some noses are out of joint at FAA headquarters, because the approval came from FAA. I think it more likely that the individuals who granted the approval could be "in hot water" for overstepping their authority, if they were in fact out of line. That is up to the FAA to determine.

 

[Longhorn]

Wow, where to start. First, Falconjet, I was very hesitant to ban jp4 because of the thoughts of being a biased JB decision. So, I did not. I put it off months. It was not about putting down JB pilots or bashing the airline, it was about someone ill will towards an entire pilot group or sector of the airlines. If he had made the same amount of bashing comments towards any other airline I would have done the same thing. He has made his fare share of comments towards others as well. We have received many many complaints from various members here. JB guys, SW guys FedEx guys...you name it. Many here could not understand his hatred towards LCC pilots in general. I had warned the guy and given him numerous chances over the last 6 months but never took action because of the way it would look. That is why I try my best to not get involved with the JB threads, but merly try to keep things on track. His recent comments about everything started to get out of hand and varied from gay lifestyles to anything that sounded like trash, a toilet, cleaning cabins, LCC pilots working for nothing and finally some comments about the continental incident that was just over the edge. You all may not agree with all my decisions here but I cannot please everyone. Many of you here know me personally and know that I am not a vindictive person or hard headed about things. I try to be very open minded to everyones opinions and let people share their feelings as needed and per the board rules but this guy upset everyone. He is not even in the 121 sector and still has a hard on for putting down the airline guys. So, it was my decision to take care of it. Like I said, you may not agree with it and you may think I was being biased, and if you think that way then I am sorry you feel that way but I can personally assure you it was not a JB thing. I would have done the same if it was UAL, DAL, SWA, FED EX etc etc.....This history of bashing people and groups got out of hand. So, that's it. I cant make you all happy but please know that I am passionate about making FI a great place to visit and post. I am doing the best I can.....I promise you all that.

and for the rest that still dont like me for this......Tough

MOD EDIT

I claimed he made a comment about continental and jp4 making some off comment remarks about the incident. Well, my bad. I was going off memory and those remarks were made by someone else, not him. Sorry about that. As to the ban, we have chatted about things and have come to an agree to disagree with ideas. I am one to always give someone the benifit of the doubt so...as I have done with many others I am giving another chance.

 

[FDJ2]

They gathered data on scheduled flights, operated with the knowledge and approval of the FAA.

Well in that case it certainly looks like the local fed over stepped his bounds and that the operation of these flights was not in compliance with the FARs. Any professional and seasoned management team should have known better. I guess that explains the increased FAA scrutiny of JBLU operations.

Hopefully JBLU will exibit greater due diligence in the future and the local fed will be replaced.

Lesson learned, I hope.

 

[elag777]

Well in that case it certainly looks like the local fed over stepped his bounds and that the operation of these flights was not in compliance with the FARs. Any professional and seasoned management team should have known better. I guess that explains the increased FAA scrutiny of JBLU operations.

Hopefully JBLU will exibit greater due diligence in the future and the local fed will be replaced.

Lesson learned, I hope.

OH PLEEZE...!!!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Well in that case it certainly looks like the local fed over stepped his bounds and that the operation of these flights was not in compliance with the FARs. Any professional and seasoned management team should have known better. I guess that explains the increased FAA scrutiny of JBLU operations.

Hopefully JBLU will exibit greater due diligence in the future and the local fed will be replaced.

Lesson learned, I hope.

Yes, after 14 pages you finally got your point across. May I ask which rule you used?

 

[brainhurts]

Wow, where to start. First, Falconjet, I was very hesitant to ban jp4 because of the thoughts of being a biased JB decision. So, I did not. I put it off months. It was not about putting down JB pilots or bashing the airline, it was about someone ill will towards an entire pilot group or sector of the airlines. If he had made the same amount of bashing comments towards any other airline I would have done the same thing. He has made his fare share of comments towards others as well. We have received many many complaints from various members here. JB guys, SW guys FedEx guys...you name it. Many here could not understand his hatred towards LCC pilots in general. I had warned the guy and given him numerous chances over the last 6 months but never took action because of the way it would look. That is why I try my best to not get involved with the JB threads, but merly try to keep things on track. His recent comments about everything started to get out of hand and varied from gay lifestyles to anything that sounded like trash, a toilet, cleaning cabins, LCC pilots working for nothing and finally some comments about the continental incident that was just over the edge. You all may not agree with all my decisions here but I cannot please everyone. Many of you here know me personally and know that I am not a vindictive person or hard headed about things. I try to be very open minded to everyones opinions and let people share their feelings as needed and per the board rules but this guy upset everyone. He is not even in the 121 sector and still has a hard on for putting down the airline guys. So, it was my decision to take care of it. Like I said, you may not agree with it and you may think I was being biased, and if you think that way then I am sorry you feel that way but I can personally assure you it was not a JB thing. I would have done the same if it was UAL, DAL, SWA, FED EX etc etc.....This history of bashing people and groups got out of hand. So, that's it. I cant make you all happy but please know that I am passionate about making FI a great place to visit and post. I am doing the best I can.....I promise you all that.

and for the rest that still dont like me for this......Tough

MOD EDIT

I claimed he made a comment about continental and jp4 making some off comment remarks about the incident. Well, my bad. I was going off memory and those remarks were made by someone else, not him. Sorry about that. As to the ban, we have chatted about things and have come to an agree to disagree with ideas. I am one to always give someone the benifit of the doubt so...as I have done with many others I am giving another chance.

Don't sweat it. He will probably just take his hate to the street and will most likely become a serial killer. But thats not your fault! Its tough to be a moderator. He will just pop up under another name and create another persona.

 

[Fins Up]

Good riddance to JP4user. I didn't know he was also 32LT10 but it makes sense now. That guy never had anything positive to say.

 

[Falconjet]

Hey folks, I can't go back and edit my post because its been too long, but I was just throwing an easy dart out there in an attempt at some humor, with just a bit of irony. Obviously it was taken the wrong way, and I apologize.

I think the moderators do a pretty good job on here, I really appreciate the work they do to maintain a sense of order on here, and I should have kept my comments to myself.

JP4user probably deserved being banned for his constant bashing of jB and his tone towards other posters, regardless of where the moderator works.

I apologize.

FJ

 

[FDJ2]

Yes, after 14 pages you finally got your point across. May I ask which rule you used?

The FARs, you know, the regulations you are suppose to comply with. They've been posted on this thread, maybe you should read up on them, incase your company asks you to violate them.

 

[Indy refugee]

The FARs, you know, the regulations you are suppose to comply with. They've been posted on this thread, maybe you should read up on them, incase your company asks you to violate them.

Here's the thing about the FARs and the POI responsibility. We have, as I'm sure you all do, an MEL. That MEL specifically allows us to operate in contradiction of the FARs. Each and every page is signed by, guess who, our POI.

We also have an FOM, which explains exactly how we will comply with each and every FAR. It explains which rules we operate under for each operation we conduct. Some Flag, some Domestic and, yes, some supplemental. Coincidentally, each page of the FOM is signed by our POI.

So when that same POI delivers an document permitting certain operations to be conducted under different rules than is normally the case, why would anyone doubt his authority to do so???

Should we question our recent change of JFK-STI, JFK-SJU, JFK-PSE, JFK-BQN and JFK-BDA from flag rules to domestic rules? We do charters under supplemental rules with block greater than 8 hours? Can our POI authorize these exceptions??

Bottom line, I believe that the flight/rest/duty regs should be thrown out and rewritten to reflect the current type of flying we do. Some things should be expanded and other further restricted. But in no way do I believe JB did anything wrong in conducting this test, and while I'm not a 'conspiracy guy', I believe the FAA in DC knew exactly what was going on. In the end they couldn't take the political firestorm that was created, so they claimed ignorance.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The FARs, you know, the regulations you are suppose to comply with. They've been posted on this thread, maybe you should read up on them, incase your company asks you to violate them.

AREN'T YOU THE ONE THAT KEPT ASKING WHICH RULE IT WAS? Maybe YOU need to read up on them. Or are you one of those people that keeps asking a question all the while knowing the answer so you can feel superior and more knowledgeable than that person? Listen jagnut, I could take a dump in a box and call it Delta, hell I'd even oversell the box and get a few of my buddies to drop a dump in there as well, but in no way would it even resemble the steaming and greasy hole the cockpit becomes when you convince yourself to alight in it. Yeah, I don't really mean that, but man it felt good so I'm leaving it in. Betcha your comeback has do to with my manners. Reread all my posts if you want manners.

Oh my goodness, you really need to take that show on the road. "Seriously folks, be kind to your servers." You are truly a tragic individual on a phyrric quest to prove a point that everyone at jb understands and supports. We know the rules, were given the green light that we understood to be a solid okay and the pilots that flew these flights did so with an authorization letter from the FAA.

You have an agenda that is much bigger than this one thing and WE ALL GET IT. I think we got it on page 2.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Twenty pages here we come...

 

[FDJ2]

We know the rules, were given the green light that we understood to be a solid okay and the pilots that flew these flights did so with an authorization letter from the FAA.

But were you really given the green light? Did you really have FAA authorization?

 

[big_al]

You are right about the third crewmember, but do tell me, how is a 13hr duty day more fattiguing than a 16hr duty day? Heavens knows, that the current FAR's is capable of producing schedules than are horrific and that every day, people are flying such schedules, without the FAA or the WSJ batting an eye.

Case in point was the crash at Gitmo, a case study if you will, about the lack of common sense in fattigue cycles: http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR94-04.pdf

What would be more fattiguing, 8 hrs of flying, 6 landings and 16 hours on duty or 10hrs, 2 landings with 13 hrs of duty. I know which one I would choose!

If we look past the jetblue issue for a moment, maybe we could get a discussion going on what we might feel is a better set of FAR's wrt. duty and flightime limits. Personally, I think the JAR's are a vastly improved set of rules.

wow what an awesome typo,

The Abstract on Page 2 says the date was August 18, 1393!

 

[Dizel8]

Here is to 20 pages!

 

[big_al]

As you stated, "most here are former ALPA." Correct. And that's why you won't see a union here ever. I'm recalled to NWA and I'm NOT going back. Most here defer recall idiot. Why would you go back if you can defer recall? It's an insurance policy that's much better than getting furloughed again when business turns south. Last I know, there haven't been any furloughs at JB, nor 30% paycuts. Hope you leave JB quickly if you get recalled so you can earn your PAYCHECK somewhere else. This airline doesn't push you to any limit. You have a schedule and the ability to fly as much or as little as you want. Get a life.

Finally, you guys all miss the boat. This was a study on FATIGUE in the cockpit. Everyone has underlined the fact that it was a test done to extend our duty day and do transcon turns. In reality, it was a study done to improve our knowledge on fatigue. Ever fly between 12am and 6am from the west coast? You will hear nothing but JB call signs as we probably do more red-eyes than any other airline out there. JB has a training course on DVD that identifies areas of fatigue and how to better prepare yourself for red-eyes and day sleeps. Utilizing some results from this scientific study has helped develop this training course. Does ALPA give you guys such training? What are those union dues doing for you lately?

I know this is real late, but are you kidding? you are trying to claim this is for training and to benefit pilots, so why not do it ON YOUR OWN COMPANY TIME not with passengers on board operating a regular flight???

 

[Dizel8]

wow what an awesome typo,

The Abstract on Page 2 says the date was August 18, 1393!

That is kind off, must mean we have been dealing with this issue for a long time and puts into perspective why the DC-8 is known as the Jurassic Jet

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

But were you really given the green light? Did you really have FAA authorization?

YES. AUTHORIZATION WAS OBTAINED FROM THE FAA. WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE WITH? No they did not go right over to Blakley's office and ask her directly. A subordinate to her somewhere down the chain of command said YES. How many authorizations should be obtained? The case is closed, finished, end of story. The FAA has a problem with the communication UNDER THEIR OWN ROOF.
Normally I agree on many of your post's and opinions regarding many things, however this has gone so far past reason, it makes me believe there is some underlying issue. Sorry you have a problem somewhere with JB, but propogating this thread is stunning to say the least.

Glad to hear DAL is growing from another thread that you started. Truly, I am. I just have to wonder if the growth here, though slowed also for many reasons, is going to have you belittle us also.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

But were you really given the green light? Did you really have FAA authorization?

You so funny. Like an energizer bunny you keep banging yourself. Ha ha funny man.

The light was indeed green, but since jb violates the FAR and hires color blind pilots, none of us could tell it was green. More of a gray I think. By the FAA do you mean the Fernando Aviation Administration? Because yes, when we asked permission from Fernando, the intern who also buffs the FSDO floors at night, he gave us a resounding "Si!" and then mumbled something about being a very good gynecologist.

SEE -- I CAN BE FUNNIER THAN YOU.

 

[AKAAB]

Can you imagine how many pages we'd be up to if the study had been done with Lido charts and the experimental winglets?

I declare this horse dead, beaten, berated, beaten again, dug up, whacked, buried, brought back to life by a voodoo priest, zombified, beaten with Eko's Holy stick, cremated and spread down the center aisle by blue-gloved non-rev'ers...

Now, I hear there is some really good news coming out in about two weeks...but that'll have to wait for another thread...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Good news? Yeah right. Unless you mean Suri Cruise's new movie deal.

Don't tell me with all this slowing of growth we can now afford the pay raise.

 

[Acefaser]

Every flight I walk away from was a good TEST flight.

 

[dee48eal]

damn 20 pages and no one ever said where i can buy one of those anal probe shock device things !!

fedex bus boy