JB Emergency Question????

[pilotmiketx]

Probably used the autoland????



riiiiiiiight.

His comment was tongue-in-cheek. You see, what he was trying to say was that the crew...aw to hell with it, if you're too dense to get it, it's your own damn fault.

 

[pilotmiketx]

I can't believe two things.

1) Why does everyone have to play "I could've/would've done it better." Just give kudos to the crew for staying calm and doing a textbook job. Noone got hurt--who cares if the spoilers were disarmed or if TR's were used.

2) Who feeds those rediculous questions to Larry King? "Does the good weather make it easier to deal with am emergency?" Just prior to touchdown, "What is going through the minds of the pilots at this instant?" WHAT A MORON!! Thought he would be smarter than that--maybe that's why I never watched him before last night.

After Katrina, I saw a news-bimbo on CNN talking about a landing accident at NEW (nevermind the airport was still closed and half-submerged) as the news copter beamed down some live footage of a couple of upside-down airplanes. In the tight shot, there was plenty of mud visible all over the planes--they had obviously been under water recently. Then the camera zooms out and we can all see that they're on the friggin' ramp surrounded by a bunch of other damaged planes, yet she blabs on about all the dangers from all the relief aircraft operating there and how there was "obviously some sort of takeoff or landing accident" yada yada yada...could've slapped that bitch.

 

[enigma]

Jknight, in fact you DO need jet time for this observation. If you had more experience, you would know that the elevator did not run out of authority, as that would have brought the nose down with a great deal of force. The pilots are a little more professional than that. The tail is swept, just like the wings and unlike the 172 you are learning in, and when a swept wing quits flying, it breaks over, unlike a straight wing that just kind of bottoms out/flutters and starts to descend. We don't do full stalls in jets like we do in 172s. Why? It's dangerous and you'll lose a lot of altitude. You do stalls at 3000, jets must be a 10,000 to even practice stall recognition and recovery. I know you are use to lowering the nose when you get the 1st indication of a stall, but in jets we leave the nose where it is and power out of it. Unload the wings on a jet, and hang on! Didn't know I was going to be giving instruction today.

Thread hijack alert!!!!!!!, or maybe just a slight change of direction.

You do NOT power out of a stall on a swept wing jet, when you practice "stalls" in your sim, or your airplane, you are practicing recovery from an approach to stall . I don't know the numbers for your airplane, but most transport catagory aircraft will give a stall indication at around stall plus 7%. It is that seven percent that allows you to use power for your recovery. If you reach true aerodynamic stall in a swept wing jet, you WILL NOT recover with power alone. I speak from personal experience.

The latest in upset recovery training makes this very point. You don't recover until you push over and break the stall. In fact, the proper recovery could actually be to pull power off if you stall in a nose high attitude while flying a jet with it's engines slung under the wings, because the thrust vector rotates the nose up in those airplanes.

The swept wing may be different from a 172, but it still follows the same basic law. Too much angle of attack, and it stalls, and stays stalled until the angle is decreased.

If you go back and re-read your own words, you'll realize what I mean.

sorry for the lack of development in this post, it's been a long day.

later,
enigma

PS, it's been a while since I flew a Lear with its marginally swept wing, but that airplane is restricted to being flown by factory test pilots when it is test flown after wing work that requires any type of flight near the stall regime. Specifically, if the leading edges were removed, the factory sends a test pilot to make the first test flight because the stall characteristics are considered too much for an untrained test pilot.

 

[Counselair]

You make a great point! They should have used full reverse and maximum braking so they could have shown the world and superior pilots like yourself what 10,000' of remaining runway looks like from the cockpit with a collapsed nose gear while ordering an egress.

Sigh,

Counselair

Plenty of runway because they stopped on the runway... another 800 feet or so and you wouldn't be saying that.

 

[jknight8907]

His comment was tongue-in-cheek. You see, what he was trying to say was that the crew...aw to hell with it, if you're too dense to get it, it's your own damn fault.

Apparently not. He later makes statements attesting that in his opinion the pilots used the autoland for the rollout.

 

[Blue Dude]

Wonder if it occured to some of you Monday morning quarterback geniuses out there that 800 feet was remaining because there was no point in braking earlier - that braking harder would have put more stress on the damaged nose gear? Brakes were available, he just didn't need them much. Looks like good planning and execution to me.

Regarding autolands - the A320 is incapable of performing a manual landing (long, light touchdown and nose high rollout) and then tracking the centerline on autopilot even with a working nose wheel. And what would the autopilot use to track the centerline with, rudder? I think that's what feet are for. The captain has thousands of hours in the left seat and is more than capable of tracking the centerline all by himself. It's not a skill requiring supernatural reflexes you know. But it was good airmanship, not an electronic trick. Give the man credit.

 

[Texasskicker]

Wonder if it occured to some of you Monday morning quarterback geniuses out there that 800 feet was remaining because there was no point in braking earlier - that braking harder would have put more stress on the damaged nose gear? Brakes were available, he just didn't need them much. Looks like good planning and execution to me.

Give the man credit.

Hey pardner, did it occur to you how much runway was wasted in the flare?

 

[chum2]

Hey pardner, did it occur to you how much runway was wasted in the flare?

I had occured to me that the aircraft landed safely. I'll take that any day.

 

[Texasskicker]

And thank the Lord for that

I had occured to me that the aircraft landed safely. I'll take that any day.

Absolutely, and no sane person will deny the ultimate outcome was amazing. Wow!

But are you are inferring is that luck is more important than skill?

 

[haven]

just a student pilot here, but it seems soft field landing practice does pay off..

 

[rvsm410]

Not that is matters now but I started this thread about procedures used in an emergency....remember about when the engines would be shut down.....for safety/fire/ minimize damage once the Pax safety was assured.....oh never mind.......

 

[pilotmiketx]

I've had a couple of emergency situations and I don't know how I managed to not bore a big smoking hole in the ground without having a 30 hour student pilot in the jumpseat to talk me through it.

ME: Flaps 20, gear down, before landing checklist
NFP: 20 selected, gear coming down
SP: Ok, now, in Microsoft Flight Simulator, I like to use speed brakes (spoilers) until 5 feet then retract them to make a smoother landing.
ME: Glideslope capturing, flaps 30
NFP: 30 Selected
SP: Oooh (distracted by something shiny...) Aren't you going to ask for a wind check? I always ask for a wind check every 15 seconds on final so I know what the wind is and how much crab angle to use...
ME: Deploy crash axe.
THWACK!
NFP: crash axe deployed. before landing complete. we're cleared to land.

 

[Deltoid]

Hey RVSM410


To finally answer your question about shutting down the engines. The abnormal procedure for nose gear problems call for: no spoilers (which means no auto brakes), no TR's, move pax to rear seats for increased aft C.G. and finally engines shut down which leaves about 30 sec's (according to airbus) for residual hydraulics for flight controls and 7 brake applications by accumulator. It does not say anything about whether to use APU or not which you can power the hydraulics by electric backup in addtion to the PTU system. Any others questions let me know..

Deltoid