JB Emergency Question????

[rvsm410]

So now that all the hubbub is over, and congrats to the crew...I was wondering in the procedures...I noticed the engines were not producing much thrust nor thrust revers used for obvious reasons of ingestion and directional control, but I was looking to see if anything was being sucked into the engines so I was wondering if once the crew has the bird on the deck, do they hit the fuel cut offs to kill the engines while they are rolling/sliding down the runway?

I am assuming the APU would still be in use to provide hyd press.....

 

[CA1900]

...I was wondering if once the crew has the bird on the deck, do they hit the fuel cut offs to kill the engines while they are rolling/sliding down the runway?

I sure wouldn't have. Hypothetically if they had continued sliding toward the end of the runway, I would think max reverse would be the prudent thing to do, ingestion or not. That'd be hard if they were shut down already.

 

[Singlecoil]

According to the NTSB report when this happened to America West, the nosewheel steering and thrust reversers were inoperative due to the faults.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001205X00227&ntsbno=NYC99IA062&akey=1

 

[rvsm410]

Yeap, I read that report as well, I dont know if that system was changed since then or not...BUt I do see CA1900 point in his post...

I was just wondering....he ya are touch down. mains..nose..the airplane is standing tall, your right down the middle of the runway...pleanty left....do you shut off the fuel to prohibit any further problems of fire, and save the engines? But I see the point...It would be best to keep them running until you know you dont need them for anything.....

 

[Fury220]

Yeap, I read that report as well, I dont know if that system was changed since then or not...BUt I do see CA1900 point in his post...

I was just wondering....he ya are touch down. mains..nose..the airplane is standing tall, your right down the middle of the runway...pleanty left....do you shut off the fuel to prohibit any further problems of fire, and save the engines? But I see the point...It would be best to keep them running until you know you dont need them for anything.....

Yeah, but didn't they stop with around 1200 feet remaining? I'd keep the engines up and running with it looking that close. I dunno...armchair quarterbacking can really suck sometimes.

 

[Counselair]

I sure wouldn't have. Hypothetically if they had continued sliding toward the end of the runway, I would think max reverse would be the prudent thing to do, ingestion or not.

LAX 12,000' I believe they had mucho runway. I think I would have left them running for other reasons. However, with the length of the runway in mind I wouldn't be touching the reversers as to avoid further nose down moment shift on the nose gear. Roll it out, brake only when neccessary.

You Made Me Proud Guys,

Thursday Morning Quarterback,

Counselair

 

[chperplt]

LAX 12,000' I believe they had mucho runway

Plenty of runway because they stopped on the runway... another 800 feet or so and you wouldn't be saying that.

 

[HawkerF/O]

I sure wouldn't have. Hypothetically if they had continued sliding toward the end of the runway, I would think max reverse would be the prudent thing to do, ingestion or not.

LAX 12,000' I believe they had mucho runway. I think I would have left them running for other reasons. However, with the length of the runway in mind I wouldn't be touching the reversers as to avoid further nose down moment shift on the nose gear. Roll it out, brake only when neccessary.

You Made Me Proud Guys,

Thursday Morning Quarterback,

Counselair

Counselair is right. Using the brakes or TRs would have shifted the weight of the aircraft forward onto the nose landing gear. The crew knew this much, as soon as the tires sheared off, the aircraft would decelerate rapidly and that was proven on the video. With that happening, the aircraft's weight would shift to the nose wheel. They knew that was going to happen and it did, so placing the weight on the nose wheel prematurely could have caused the nose to collapse. Shutting off the engines would have taken away the option of using TRs if they needed them. For those who think saving the engines was a factor, WRONG. Who cares about the engines once it is on the ground? If you have to destroy them to save your life or the life of passengers, or even just to avoid injury, so what? Is that really a consideration of professionals?
Chief Pilot: Ummm, I understand you destroyed the engines???
Me: Yes
CP: Well, do you have anything to say for yourself?
Me: Yes, I destroyed the engines
After the nose wheel hit, and the speed slows enough so the elevator will not pull the nose back into the air, full aft elevator. Also, Idle deploy on the TRs would have been an option as well, but as we saw, not necessary. That crew did what they did in a professional manner, and they did it well. They probably used the auto-land cause that runway does not have a center line anymore: The crew ground it off! 1st class job those guys did.

 

[jknight8907]

Counselair is right. Using the brakes or TRs would have shifted the weight of the aircraft forward onto the nose landing gear. The crew knew this much, as soon as the tires sheared off, the aircraft would decelerate rapidly and that was proven on the video. With that happening, the aircraft's weight would shift to the nose wheel. They knew that was going to happen and it did, so placing the weight on the nose wheel prematurely could have caused the nose to collapse. Shutting off the engines would have taken away the option of using TRs if they needed them. For those who think saving the engines was a factor, WRONG. Who cares about the engines once it is on the ground? If you have to destroy them to save your life or the life of passengers, or even just to avoid injury, so what? Is that really a consideration of professionals?
Chief Pilot: Ummm, I understand you destroyed the engines???
Me: Yes
CP: Well, do you have anything to say for yourself?
Me: Yes, I destroyed the engines
After the nose wheel hit, and the speed slows enough so the elevator will not pull the nose back into the air, full aft elevator. Also, Idle deploy on the TRs would have been an option as well, but as we saw, not necessary. That crew did what they did in a professional manner, and they did it well. They probably used the auto-land cause that runway does not have a center line anymore: The crew ground it off! 1st class job those guys did.

Probably used the autoland????



riiiiiiiight.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I was wondering if the spoilers were dis-armed either on purpose or by some default. When they touched down the wing stayed clean with no deployment of the spoilers. Does the bus not have that?

Just curious on the systems. Excellent job though.