Jb + alpa

[aewanabe]

Can someone give me an example where protectionism was good in the long run for the growth of an economy? We shouldn't be afraid of competition.

Spend 5 minutes reading PPrune and tell me you aren't scared of competing with the likes of Ryanair or Easy Jet and the conditions they work under. If you're not, I weep even more for this industry.

 

[bluesideup340]

You're right, Blueside.

What has foreign competition done to harm the US auto industry? Detriot is doing great!!!

Two of the big three failed because of lack of vision and not because of competition.

I look forward to going head to head with Eithiopian Airlines. Their pilots are highly paid and highly compensated.

Besides, I'm sure we could compete with them on the lucrative Baha Dar to Werner route and make just as much as they could on the JFK-LAX route.

Are you a Ethiopian citizen or do you hold a work permit for the country?
If your answer is no. The Chances is very good you will never have too.

You don't think much before you type, do you, BoB?

So you try to insult me because you have no arguments? weak

Cabotage will be the final nail in the coffin to the US industry, because the cost of living is so much lower in so much more of the world. There are airlines all over the world that can offer better (not safer) service to US domestic airlines because they can find people who will work for next to nothing and still manage to raise their standard of living at home. Just look at who's doing the landscaping work in your neighborhood. It ain't people from the US, because it doesn't pay enough for them to be happy, but it allows many people from countries with less to offer than we have a chance to send money home to their families and live a better life.

Your are confusing Cabotage with illegal immigration. Or would you like to give us supporting documention how many illegal immigrants work for Toyota, BMW, KIA, Siemens, SAP, etc. in the US.

A US based carrier is subject to the same laws for who it can employ, no matter who its owners might be. All US carriers have to employ either lawfully admitted foreign nationals on special work visas, or US permanent residents, and indeed, for some jobs, they can only employ full US citizens. There is no difference in these laws if the airline is owned by people in London or Little Rock.

Which is I guess is the point, but as a Bob, I'm not sure that you can actually read, so I guess I'll just bid you a good night, and a happy, transparent, direct, collabrative relationship.

How's that pay raise coming, anyway?

It works great thanks for asking. How is your life?

 

[bluesideup340]

WOW! Cabotage has not nearly the benefit for a US domestic carrier as it does for the Euros. Are you for real?! Sorry but the London-Manchester or Turkey to Ibiza market opportunites are but a FRACTION of the US domestic market.

Where is the market analysis to support this. How do you know about what market opportunity that do or do not exist?

Do you really want to have Ryanair flying point-to-point in the US, with Eastern-European guys who pay 50K for a 73 type and think it's ok to pay for their own parking and uniforms and f-ing RECURRENT SIMS?! Because as much as the regionals suck here SJS in Europe means 300-hours and paying for your job in an F-ing Airbus.

For goodness sake wake up. The ignorance and head-in-the-sand syndrome is stunning.

Let me say SkyBus. That being said it is abviously, an idea, including the bad once, are not limited to foreign ownership or cabotage. If you want to be all up in arms about other people work conditions so be it, but do not confuse the issue with FO or cabotage. In regard to the Eastern European working here in the US. This would require legal immigration of those guys. In the same way as you and I would need work permits in the EU, end of story.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Since everyone is pulling seats out of the market I highly doubt the US domestic market isn't tapped out.

I said the EU market....

This is why it is important to understand the difference between FO and Cabotage.
A US based carrier is subject to the same laws for who it can employ, no matter who its owners might be. All US carriers have to employ either lawfully admitted foreign nationals on special work visas, or US permanent residents, and indeed, for some jobs, they can only employ full US citizens. There is no difference in these laws if the airline is owned by people in London or Little Rock.

You are demonstrating your lack of understanding... read on...

So we do agree, the EU request is not unreasonable.

It depends on the labor protection.....

Again any US based carrier is subject to the same laws for who it can employ, no matter who its owners might be.

You are missing the point... but I will clarify later... read on...

Look at any Mulit National company and give me an example when this occured. Keep in mind foreign ownership is always bound by the local labor law. Hence, it is doubtful american pilots will be based abroad or visa versa.

Ryan Air in Europe... they are a prime example....

Look at Coke, GE, MC, Ford, IBM, J&J, etc. Has their global presents as mulitnational cooperations harmed labor?

How about Toyota, VW, Mercedes, SAP, UBS,etc. Do these company invest and provide jobs here in the US to americans?

Here is tip.. these multi nationals assets don't go eight miles a minute... In other words, thier factories don't fly thru time zones and land in different sovereign states with different laws...

Note the FX accident recently in Japan.. the police investigate the accident.. not a Japanese NTSB.

So they will criminally convict whereas the NTSB will not...

Last but not least. Foreign Ownership and Cabotage are two different things and following the Australian model if structured right benefits all stakeholders.
BTW KLM/AirFrance and the Lufthansa/Brussel/BMI/Swiss operation work very well. No dooms day senario.

You've mentioned no US carrier above.. that is the concern...

I recommend you read up on Ryan Air. The application of labor law is quite mind boggling... In addition, the maritime industry is a great example of what is in store for us....

It all comes down to labor protections in the global economy... those who don't have it.... are utterly screwed... those who do have it... have a tough fight ahead..... for everyone....

 

[aewanabe]

Seriously??

Where is the market analysis to support this. How do you know about what market opportunity that do or do not exist?



Let me say SkyBus. That being said it is abviously, an idea, including the bad once, are not limited to foreign ownership or cabotage. If you want to be all up in arms about other people work conditions so be it, but do not confuse the issue with FO or cabotage. In regard to the Eastern European working here in the US. This would require legal immigration of those guys. In the same way as you and I would need work permits in the EU, end of story.

Is that you Joel Peterson? Okay for market analysis let's look at the intra-European market. The mainline Euro carriers have steadily withdrawn from intra-European flying, to be replaced almost entirely by LCCs and regionals. And again, the working conditions at LCCs in Europe are appalling by our standards. Ryanair is but one example.

Of course I am up in arms about other people's work conditions when they are a harbinger for what could happen to mine. I guarantee you any Cabotage arrangements will include foreign pilots flying the jets. For an example, the current China Air flights from ANC-JFK and Qantas LAX-JFK are definitely flown with their own pilots. The Pan Am hub in Berlin certainly didn't operate with German pilots, did it?