Jazz pilots reach TA

[pipejockey]

Well if they can turn a profit with those rates then it appears that their major airline partner is giving them enough. You see, here in the States, I doubt the major airlines that use regional partners are willing to cough up more money to allow regional companies to adequately pay their pilots.

Great, so just accept what management SAYS they can afford to pay you huh? Do any of you know just how much higher the average fare would have to be to pay all regional FO's 15 grand a year more, and Captains 10 grand a year more? The average passenger wouldn't even notice. But as long as we have internet pricing which list prices from cheapest to greatest, if only one airline is raising the fares, they won't even be listed on the first page of results. Everyone has to do it. But all what does management care? They'll keep raking in their dough whether the company turns a profit or not. And all those management types can jump ship and get a better job, with higher pay right off the bat, running some sort of other company into the ground. It's what they do best! We as pilots have to start at the bottom of another seniority list, that is, if we are even lucky enough to get hired which will be dependent on age and the type of airlines hiring. And what does ALPA do to try to mitigate the problems we have in this profession making a forced lateral move to another airline? They allow management to even lower an already low pay rate for new hires. Just look at new hire pay at Spirit in their new TA of 38 bucks an hour for the duration of the contract. Thats lower than what it is now. As long as first year pay is allowed to be so low, lateral moves are impossible. And considering how many pilots are on year one pay at any given time, paying new hires at least 60 grand would cost very little. We are talking a fraction of one percent of any given airlines revenue.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That's right round eye, we are.Not sure if you are in the left seat or not but make sure you play nice with the company, and maybe if they haven't hired enough off the street captains they might let you upgrade.....

Came as a DEC and upgrades here are done by seniority.

I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines.

Can't speak for the other places in the world you mentioned but I flew for many years in Latin America, the labor laws there (and in the E.U.) are a LOT more employee friendly there than they are in the U.S. their court system is the one who will intercede on your behalf (along with the unions) and not some disrespected grievance system that takes years to vent and can be sold by your union reps if they keep the benefits at the top and sell out the bottom of the pile.

Besides, do you really want to compare the professional aviators in the U.S. with Hindu or Brazilian pilots? or should we compare with pilots in Great Britain and Germany?

 

[pipejockey]

Besides, do you really want to compare the professional aviators in the U.S. with Hindu or Brazilian pilots? or should we compare with pilots in Great Britain and Germany?

My point exactly!! I am amazed at how little self-respect some pilots have for what they do.

 

[densoo]

Spirit strikes, management settles. Maybe Jazz MBAs saw what's up and decided not to go down that road.

Thanks Spirit pilots! You've turned this thing around!

 

[rudder]

Amazing! I just went to APC and looked at their current pay rates, and they blow anything and everything even the best scumbag US regional has to offer! 36 grand for new hires, 42 grand 2nd year, 49 grand the third! And these rates are for ALL of their aircraft, half of which are Dash 100's and 300's. And I am sure these rates will be improved upon in this TA. Oh, and 57 bucks an hour per diem. You can barely get 40 bucks down here. Min days off for line holders 14 days, reserves 12! And even a real pension!! Imagine that!
Perhaps we need to look towards our northern brothers for guidance on how to negotiate a labor contract. Because we sure as hell can't!

The Jazz TA is much better than the info on APC

 

[pipejockey]

The Jazz TA is much better than the info on APC

I hope you are a Jazz pilot and this is true! Every regional pilot in the USA should be ashamed of themselves for what they do this job for! Especially the ones who have voted in these horrid pay rates the past 10 years! If Canada hired pilots from the USA, I would be all over that! And to work in a country that doesn't view members of labor as a clump of dog sh*t they just stepped in, like political, and corporate america does!

 

[filejw]

I did factor in the exchange rate.. Remember the euro is only trading for about eight cents on the dollar. Some of those rates looked a lot better 18 months ago.

While I would love to see a return of the contracts of the late 90's I don't have a problem saying 200K+ a year is fair for a senior widebody captain. I would just like to see more like 90K+ for a regional captain and 50K+ for a regional FO.. much like Jazz has!

cale

Why do folks always undersell themselves. Minimum wage for a jet Ca should be 120$, its a professional job and should be paid accordingly. My sister in management and bother in sales both make way over 200$

 

[pipejockey]

What happened to this thread? Every regional pilot in the US should be demanding to have Jazz's new pay rates posted. Because after all, don't you all think that regional pilots in the US who are flying 50 to 90 seat jets ought to get paid at least as much as Jazz pilots are getting paid for flying Dash 8 100 and 200's? No, regional pilots in the US just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that they are paid a fair and professional wage.

To any Jazz pilot who along with your fellow aviators actually fight for nothing less than fair and equitable wages and work rules, could you please post your new pay rates please? And congratulations on keeping the bar from falling up there, unlike the spineless folks down here who fall all over themselves and agree to any pay rate and work rule management demands for even the empty promise of ever bigger and ever shinier jets showing up on property.

 

[pipejockey]

Are the payrates on airline pilot central reflecting the new contract? I am amazed that the RJ pilots in this country seem to be totally uninterested in what some other countries regional pilots earn. I guess it's easier for the folks here to keep burying their heads in the sand and believing everything management tells them.

 

[Full of LUV]

What happened to this thread? Every regional pilot in the US should be demanding to have Jazz's new pay rates posted. Because after all, don't you all think that regional pilots in the US who are flying 50 to 90 seat jets ought to get paid at least as much as Jazz pilots are getting paid for flying Dash 8 100 and 200's? No, regional pilots in the US just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that they are paid a fair and professional wage.

To any Jazz pilot who along with your fellow aviators actually fight for nothing less than fair and equitable wages and work rules, could you please post your new pay rates please? And congratulations on keeping the bar from falling up there, unlike the spineless folks down here who fall all over themselves and agree to any pay rate and work rule management demands for even the empty promise of ever bigger and ever shinier jets showing up on property.

Difference here is there are many regionals, and new ones starting all the time, which have our RJ pilots scared straight when it comes to wages. How many times have our RJ pilots went from 50 to 70 to 90 to 100+ seat jets without so much as a few dollars an hour. That is a 100% increase in productivity for a marginal increase in pay.

 

[amcnd]

You should also consider the cost of living in Canada, and there higher taxes.. And when the Dollar re-gains it's strength.... Its about a wash... Looks good on paper but, there about the same after all these factors are put into play....

 

[johnsonrod]

Good job Jazz pilots. I agree, everything in Canada is better!!!! They have better hockey, better beer, better ice fishing and better airline pilot wages. Let's re-elect Obama to another term and watch as the US becomes more Canada-like or even more socialistic. Nobody excels, everyone is equal.

I don't want to work hard - but I still want to make money and take from those who actually work hard. I want this all because I am ENTITLED to it.... Why work hard when people will give me things? Power to the people!!!!! Go Obama in 2012!!!!!!

 

[SLOTH]

I don't want to work hard - but I still want to make money and take from those who actually work hard.

Sounds like the American dream.... from the corporate executive perspective.

 

[Max Powers]

You should also consider the cost of living in Canada, and there higher taxes.. And when the Dollar re-gains it's strength.... Its about a wash... Looks good on paper but, there about the same after all these factors are put into play....

Like they say ignorance is bliss.....

There tax rate is higher. However their "realized tax rate" or the tax rate the average Canadian actually pays is lower than us. After deductions for being middle class, children, etc thats right you pay the same or less than USA. Also don't forget they have efficient universal healthcare which works great. I have dual citizenship an am stuck in the USA due to wifes job.

 

[pipejockey]

5 year FO's at $57 an hour! Even if they are taxed higher than us, they aren't taxed higher to the tune of 20 bucks an hour!

And for johnsonrod, those people you speak of who you claim work hard for their money are actually reaping the rewards that the labor force provides for them! They are clearly taking from the poor and stuffing their own pockets! Do you really think that we as airline pilots should have to work 100 to 400 years to earn what the useless folks in the executive offices are handed (not earned) in ONE SINGLE YEAR?

 

[Green]

I don't think I am. I am limited to mostly airlinepilotcentral.com, but go there and pull up Alitalia, Qantas, Cathay, and Emirates, which is a nice sampling. Delta and American are equal to or more than all of them on widebody rates.

That is what I based my statement on.

Well you are not valuing the contract correctly. Take Emirates for example. 1USD = 3.67AE

Base pay- 25,000AED
Flt pay (45AED/hr) 80/month - 3,600
avg per diem - 350aed/day x apprx 7/month - 2,450
12% provident fund off basic - 3,000
housing allowance if you don't take company accom.- 12,667/month

Average monthly pay of 46,717AED or 12,729USD.
Add a one time USD 8,174 and you are looking at 1st year pay of approximately $161,000USD.

How much money would you have to make before taxes in the USA to NET 161k? Which airline in the USA will offer 161k after taxes for 1st year pay? Even if you live in company accomodation and take out the 20k for housing allowance you are looking at 120,000USD with FREE housing/utilities. Not bad for first year pay. Bonuses range anywhere from 2 weeks Basic to 14 weeks basic.