Jazz pilots reach TA

[jonjuan]

http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article1613823.html

azz, pilots' union reach tentative deal

Brent Jang

Jazz Air Income Fund and the union representing pilots have reached a tentative labour agreement, says the Air Line Pilots Association.

Labour and industry officials said Tuesday that Jazz’s deal with the union is a breakthrough that prevents a walkout by 1,500 pilots. The previous contract expired June 30, 2009.

Jazz pilots are scheduled to be asked to ratify the tentative agreement by late next week.

Halifax-based Jazz, which flies on behalf of Air Canada, has yet to sign a new contract with its flight attendants. The Canadian Flight Attendants Union said it hopes to resume efforts within days with federal mediation and conciliation officers to help negotiate a new settlement.

 

[cale42]

Not even one year out of contract and they had already threatened strike. Not to mention Jazz already has better rates for their equipment than anyone in the US.

Must be nice to work in a country that respects labor.

cale

 

[pipejockey]

Amazing! I just went to APC and looked at their current pay rates, and they blow anything and everything even the best scumbag US regional has to offer! 36 grand for new hires, 42 grand 2nd year, 49 grand the third! And these rates are for ALL of their aircraft, half of which are Dash 100's and 300's. And I am sure these rates will be improved upon in this TA. Oh, and 57 bucks an hour per diem. You can barely get 40 bucks down here. Min days off for line holders 14 days, reserves 12! And even a real pension!! Imagine that!
Perhaps we need to look towards our northern brothers for guidance on how to negotiate a labor contract. Because we sure as hell can't!

 

[pipejockey]

Even good ole Bearskin Airlines up in Canada pays Metro FO's more than many regional 70 seat jet FO's here, And Captains as well. United States Airline Pilots, we've got to be the most sorry excuse for airline pilots on the planet for what we have allowed to happen to our profession here!. Wake up people! We are being taken advantage of and all any one here says is "thank you sir, may I have another."

 

[Kharma Police]

Even good ole Bearskin Airlines up in Canada pays Metro FO's more than many regional 70 seat jet FO's here, And Captains as well. United States Airline Pilots, we've got to be the most sorry excuse for airline pilots on the planet for what we have allowed to happen to our profession here!. Wake up people! We are being taken advantage of and all any one here says is "thank you sir, may I have another."

Which airline do you work for, sport? Just because the Canadians aren't bound by the RLA doesn't mean they are a better place to work. I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines. Be sure and ask about Unions, work rules, and their interpretation of the seniority system during your interview.........

 

[jonjuan]

Amazing! I just went to APC and looked at their current pay rates, and they blow anything and everything even the best scumbag US regional has to offer! 36 grand for new hires, 42 grand 2nd year, 49 grand the third! And these rates are for ALL of their aircraft, half of which are Dash 100's and 300's. And I am sure these rates will be improved upon in this TA. Oh, and 57 bucks an hour per diem. You can barely get 40 bucks down here. Min days off for line holders 14 days, reserves 12! And even a real pension!! Imagine that!
Perhaps we need to look towards our northern brothers for guidance on how to negotiate a labor contract. Because we sure as hell can't!

Well if they can turn a profit with those rates then it appears that their major airline partner is giving them enough. You see, here in the States, I doubt the major airlines that use regional partners are willing to cough up more money to allow regional companies to adequately pay their pilots.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Amazing! I just went to APC and looked at their current pay rates, and they blow anything and everything even the best scumbag US regional has to offer! 36 grand for new hires, 42 grand 2nd year, 49 grand the third! And these rates are for ALL of their aircraft, half of which are Dash 100's and 300's. And I am sure these rates will be improved upon in this TA. Oh, and 57 bucks an hour per diem. You can barely get 40 bucks down here. Min days off for line holders 14 days, reserves 12! And even a real pension!! Imagine that!
Perhaps we need to look towards our northern brothers for guidance on how to negotiate a labor contract. Because we sure as hell can't!

I thought that everyone was aware that we are the lowest paid aviation professionals here in the U.S. of all the industrialized nations.

Which airline do you work for, sport? Just because the Canadians aren't bound by the RLA doesn't mean they are a better place to work. I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines. Be sure and ask about Unions, work rules, and their interpretation of the seniority system during your interview.........

Now that made me laugh, we are treated fairly here hum?

 

[Kharma Police]

Now that made me laugh, we are treated fairly here hum?

That's right round eye, we are.Not sure if you are in the left seat or not but make sure you play nice with the company, and maybe if they haven't hired enough off the street captains they might let you upgrade.....

 

[cale42]

What delusional world do you live in Kharma Police? I'd like to move there, since apparently I'll be able to buy a nice house and car on my US pilot salary the way you see it.

cale

 

[Kharma Police]

What delusional world do you live in Kharma Police? I'd like to move there, since apparently I'll be able to buy a nice house and car on my US pilot salary the way you see it.

cale

I live in ATL. I employ a very difficult financial system that seems to be beyond the scope of most pilots or Americans in general. Save your money, live within your means and don't run up your credit cards.

http://www.daveramsey.com/

http://clarkhoward.com/

 

[cale42]

Alright.. I thoroughly respect that answer. I believe in the same principles and don't have an issue living by them.

However I have to disagree with your assessment that compared to Europe, India, the Middle East or Far East we are fairly compensated. Almost without exception they treat pilots better and pay them more. Especially at the sub-100 seat level. I won't argue that widebody pilots at majors compare favorably in the US to other countries.

Also, I assume with your financial acumen that you know the ATL is one of the cheapest major metro areas in the country and while I have no problem with the choice to live there, could you live a lifestyle you would be happy with in SFO, SEA, NYC, or BOS?

cale

 

[RJ Bum]

Alright.. I thoroughly respect that answer. I believe in the same principles and don't have an issue living by them.

However I have to disagree with your assessment that compared to Europe, India, the Middle East or Far East we are fairly compensated. Almost without exception they treat pilots better and pay them more. Especially at the sub-100 seat level. I won't argue that widebody pilots at majors compare favorably in the US to other countries.

Also, I assume with your financial acumen that you know the ATL is one of the cheapest major metro areas in the country and while I have no problem with the choice to live there, could you live a lifestyle you would be happy with in SFO, SEA, NYC, or BOS?

cale

You're being too kind. What wide body rates do you speak of? If you take FedEX and UPS out of the equation we are not remotely close.

 

[cale42]

I don't think I am. I am limited to mostly airlinepilotcentral.com, but go there and pull up Alitalia, Qantas, Cathay, and Emirates, which is a nice sampling. Delta and American are equal to or more than all of them on widebody rates.

That is what I based my statement on.

 

[RJ Bum]

Well the airlines that you've chosen aren't exactly known for raising the bar over the years.....

Also dont forget to factor in exchange rate when looking at that site, you'll be surprised

 

[cale42]

I did factor in the exchange rate.. Remember the euro is only trading for about eight cents on the dollar. Some of those rates looked a lot better 18 months ago.

While I would love to see a return of the contracts of the late 90's I don't have a problem saying 200K+ a year is fair for a senior widebody captain. I would just like to see more like 90K+ for a regional captain and 50K+ for a regional FO.. much like Jazz has!

cale

 

[RJ Bum]

I am happy for the Jazz guys, but the regionals need to return to CMR and Horizon rates of 2000 plus inflation. But this is a step in the right direction. I do have disagree with the 200K statement about widebody rates. 200K was fair in 1990, but not in 2010

 

[cale42]

200K is in the top 1% of all wage earners. Well above many lawyers and doctors. Would like more, but we need to focus elsewhere.

 

[RJ Bum]

I agree, the focus needs to be the enitre industry, top pay dictates the rest the the scale. As far as comparing it to doctors and lawyers, that's a whole different conversation. Apples and oranges

 

[Floatplane]

Shouldn't this be on the Regional Board?

 

[pipejockey]

Just because the Canadians aren't bound by the RLA doesn't mean they are a better place to work. I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines.

Well if we were not under the RLA we would be under the NLRA and then not only could management pit one airline pilot group against the other, they could pit the pilots against one domicile of an individual airline against the pilots of another domicile within the same company. Each having different contracts, with each domiciles flying being held hostage by management during negotiations. You see sport, the Canadians still have some semblance of respect for labor, even organized labor up there, and they are not nearly as ruthless in busting the unions and lowering the standard of living of labor forces there as they are down here. If you compare the USA to other civilized and industrialized nations, we are dead last in how we treat people who are considered labor, as opposed to management.

It's funny how when people want to exaggerate about how much better we have it here than other places, they always compare us to the lowest of low and downtrodden. You know, the kind of person who after hearing you complain about the quality of the dinner you just had to pay 25 bucks for, proceeds to preach to you about all the people starving in Uganda! WHAT!! Uganda?? We are citizens of the USA and should be compared to the best nations of the world. NOT UGANDA!!


Now, you want to talk about India, Europe, Latin America, and the middle East? Ok then! If you take the wages of the pilots of those countries, including the regional pilots, and compare what they are paid to others in their own country, you will find that the pilots are living near the very top of the food chain. That means the small jet pilots as well. And I bet it is even more pronounced in good ole Uganda! A Ugandan pilot is probably living a lifestyle that the average Ugandan could only dream about. Our small jet FO's are barely above poverty, and the Captains are paid an average american salary at best when compared to our own people.