Jazz pilots reach TA

[RJ Bum]

I am happy for the Jazz guys, but the regionals need to return to CMR and Horizon rates of 2000 plus inflation. But this is a step in the right direction. I do have disagree with the 200K statement about widebody rates. 200K was fair in 1990, but not in 2010

 

[cale42]

200K is in the top 1% of all wage earners. Well above many lawyers and doctors. Would like more, but we need to focus elsewhere.

 

[RJ Bum]

I agree, the focus needs to be the enitre industry, top pay dictates the rest the the scale. As far as comparing it to doctors and lawyers, that's a whole different conversation. Apples and oranges

 

[Floatplane]

Shouldn't this be on the Regional Board?

 

[pipejockey]

Just because the Canadians aren't bound by the RLA doesn't mean they are a better place to work. I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines.

Well if we were not under the RLA we would be under the NLRA and then not only could management pit one airline pilot group against the other, they could pit the pilots against one domicile of an individual airline against the pilots of another domicile within the same company. Each having different contracts, with each domiciles flying being held hostage by management during negotiations. You see sport, the Canadians still have some semblance of respect for labor, even organized labor up there, and they are not nearly as ruthless in busting the unions and lowering the standard of living of labor forces there as they are down here. If you compare the USA to other civilized and industrialized nations, we are dead last in how we treat people who are considered labor, as opposed to management.

It's funny how when people want to exaggerate about how much better we have it here than other places, they always compare us to the lowest of low and downtrodden. You know, the kind of person who after hearing you complain about the quality of the dinner you just had to pay 25 bucks for, proceeds to preach to you about all the people starving in Uganda! WHAT!! Uganda?? We are citizens of the USA and should be compared to the best nations of the world. NOT UGANDA!!


Now, you want to talk about India, Europe, Latin America, and the middle East? Ok then! If you take the wages of the pilots of those countries, including the regional pilots, and compare what they are paid to others in their own country, you will find that the pilots are living near the very top of the food chain. That means the small jet pilots as well. And I bet it is even more pronounced in good ole Uganda! A Ugandan pilot is probably living a lifestyle that the average Ugandan could only dream about. Our small jet FO's are barely above poverty, and the Captains are paid an average american salary at best when compared to our own people.

 

[pipejockey]

Well if they can turn a profit with those rates then it appears that their major airline partner is giving them enough. You see, here in the States, I doubt the major airlines that use regional partners are willing to cough up more money to allow regional companies to adequately pay their pilots.

Great, so just accept what management SAYS they can afford to pay you huh? Do any of you know just how much higher the average fare would have to be to pay all regional FO's 15 grand a year more, and Captains 10 grand a year more? The average passenger wouldn't even notice. But as long as we have internet pricing which list prices from cheapest to greatest, if only one airline is raising the fares, they won't even be listed on the first page of results. Everyone has to do it. But all what does management care? They'll keep raking in their dough whether the company turns a profit or not. And all those management types can jump ship and get a better job, with higher pay right off the bat, running some sort of other company into the ground. It's what they do best! We as pilots have to start at the bottom of another seniority list, that is, if we are even lucky enough to get hired which will be dependent on age and the type of airlines hiring. And what does ALPA do to try to mitigate the problems we have in this profession making a forced lateral move to another airline? They allow management to even lower an already low pay rate for new hires. Just look at new hire pay at Spirit in their new TA of 38 bucks an hour for the duration of the contract. Thats lower than what it is now. As long as first year pay is allowed to be so low, lateral moves are impossible. And considering how many pilots are on year one pay at any given time, paying new hires at least 60 grand would cost very little. We are talking a fraction of one percent of any given airlines revenue.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That's right round eye, we are.Not sure if you are in the left seat or not but make sure you play nice with the company, and maybe if they haven't hired enough off the street captains they might let you upgrade.....

Came as a DEC and upgrades here are done by seniority.

I would suggest you look at pilot jobs in India the Middle East, Latin America or Europe for that matter to get a perspective on the US airlines.

Can't speak for the other places in the world you mentioned but I flew for many years in Latin America, the labor laws there (and in the E.U.) are a LOT more employee friendly there than they are in the U.S. their court system is the one who will intercede on your behalf (along with the unions) and not some disrespected grievance system that takes years to vent and can be sold by your union reps if they keep the benefits at the top and sell out the bottom of the pile.

Besides, do you really want to compare the professional aviators in the U.S. with Hindu or Brazilian pilots? or should we compare with pilots in Great Britain and Germany?

 

[pipejockey]

Besides, do you really want to compare the professional aviators in the U.S. with Hindu or Brazilian pilots? or should we compare with pilots in Great Britain and Germany?

My point exactly!! I am amazed at how little self-respect some pilots have for what they do.

 

[densoo]

Spirit strikes, management settles. Maybe Jazz MBAs saw what's up and decided not to go down that road.

Thanks Spirit pilots! You've turned this thing around!

 

[rudder]

Amazing! I just went to APC and looked at their current pay rates, and they blow anything and everything even the best scumbag US regional has to offer! 36 grand for new hires, 42 grand 2nd year, 49 grand the third! And these rates are for ALL of their aircraft, half of which are Dash 100's and 300's. And I am sure these rates will be improved upon in this TA. Oh, and 57 bucks an hour per diem. You can barely get 40 bucks down here. Min days off for line holders 14 days, reserves 12! And even a real pension!! Imagine that!
Perhaps we need to look towards our northern brothers for guidance on how to negotiate a labor contract. Because we sure as hell can't!

The Jazz TA is much better than the info on APC

 

[pipejockey]

The Jazz TA is much better than the info on APC

I hope you are a Jazz pilot and this is true! Every regional pilot in the USA should be ashamed of themselves for what they do this job for! Especially the ones who have voted in these horrid pay rates the past 10 years! If Canada hired pilots from the USA, I would be all over that! And to work in a country that doesn't view members of labor as a clump of dog sh*t they just stepped in, like political, and corporate america does!

 

[filejw]

I did factor in the exchange rate.. Remember the euro is only trading for about eight cents on the dollar. Some of those rates looked a lot better 18 months ago.

While I would love to see a return of the contracts of the late 90's I don't have a problem saying 200K+ a year is fair for a senior widebody captain. I would just like to see more like 90K+ for a regional captain and 50K+ for a regional FO.. much like Jazz has!

cale

Why do folks always undersell themselves. Minimum wage for a jet Ca should be 120$, its a professional job and should be paid accordingly. My sister in management and bother in sales both make way over 200$

 

[pipejockey]

What happened to this thread? Every regional pilot in the US should be demanding to have Jazz's new pay rates posted. Because after all, don't you all think that regional pilots in the US who are flying 50 to 90 seat jets ought to get paid at least as much as Jazz pilots are getting paid for flying Dash 8 100 and 200's? No, regional pilots in the US just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that they are paid a fair and professional wage.

To any Jazz pilot who along with your fellow aviators actually fight for nothing less than fair and equitable wages and work rules, could you please post your new pay rates please? And congratulations on keeping the bar from falling up there, unlike the spineless folks down here who fall all over themselves and agree to any pay rate and work rule management demands for even the empty promise of ever bigger and ever shinier jets showing up on property.

 

[pipejockey]

Are the payrates on airline pilot central reflecting the new contract? I am amazed that the RJ pilots in this country seem to be totally uninterested in what some other countries regional pilots earn. I guess it's easier for the folks here to keep burying their heads in the sand and believing everything management tells them.

 

[Full of LUV]

What happened to this thread? Every regional pilot in the US should be demanding to have Jazz's new pay rates posted. Because after all, don't you all think that regional pilots in the US who are flying 50 to 90 seat jets ought to get paid at least as much as Jazz pilots are getting paid for flying Dash 8 100 and 200's? No, regional pilots in the US just want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that they are paid a fair and professional wage.

To any Jazz pilot who along with your fellow aviators actually fight for nothing less than fair and equitable wages and work rules, could you please post your new pay rates please? And congratulations on keeping the bar from falling up there, unlike the spineless folks down here who fall all over themselves and agree to any pay rate and work rule management demands for even the empty promise of ever bigger and ever shinier jets showing up on property.

Difference here is there are many regionals, and new ones starting all the time, which have our RJ pilots scared straight when it comes to wages. How many times have our RJ pilots went from 50 to 70 to 90 to 100+ seat jets without so much as a few dollars an hour. That is a 100% increase in productivity for a marginal increase in pay.