BE58 Driver
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J-41 or DO328 jet?????
- Thread starter BE58 Driver
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FurloughedAgain
Cabin Heating & Air Tech.
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your friend
Your friend, if he is smart, will accept the FIRST class ACA offers regardless of which aircraft he will be flying.
Seniority is EVERYTHING.
It could be the difference in upgrading quickly, or remaining an F/O for 5 years. It could be the difference in getting furloughed or remaining on the property. It could be the difference in getting a commutable line, or spending endless nights in a crashpad. It could be the difference in Christmas eve home with his family... or in Binghamton, New York eating Christmas dinner at a Denny's.
Tell him not to let his ego drive his decision making -- there's a LOT more to life than flying a jet.
Your friend, if he is smart, will accept the FIRST class ACA offers regardless of which aircraft he will be flying.
Seniority is EVERYTHING.
It could be the difference in upgrading quickly, or remaining an F/O for 5 years. It could be the difference in getting furloughed or remaining on the property. It could be the difference in getting a commutable line, or spending endless nights in a crashpad. It could be the difference in Christmas eve home with his family... or in Binghamton, New York eating Christmas dinner at a Denny's.
Tell him not to let his ego drive his decision making -- there's a LOT more to life than flying a jet.
Brother Francis
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There is much merit to furloughed's advice.
In the last 12 months I have been right (and I mean RIGHT) on the cusp three times during furloughs, domicile bids and displacements. One #- (1) (uno)- made the difference between 3 and 4 stripes for me, 3 #'s made the difference getting my choice of domicile and 4 #'s made the difference not getting bumped out of it.
I've never flown a J41, but if it is anything like the 31, it'll make a man out of him.
It's all turbine time. The expeience in a TP, IMHO, is more valuable as a foundation while more turbojet time in the logbook will not be that significant in the long run.
Upgrade time may be faster in the J41 as well. Your bud should investigate that. PIC time will make a difference
In the last 12 months I have been right (and I mean RIGHT) on the cusp three times during furloughs, domicile bids and displacements. One #- (1) (uno)- made the difference between 3 and 4 stripes for me, 3 #'s made the difference getting my choice of domicile and 4 #'s made the difference not getting bumped out of it.
I've never flown a J41, but if it is anything like the 31, it'll make a man out of him.
It's all turbine time. The expeience in a TP, IMHO, is more valuable as a foundation while more turbojet time in the logbook will not be that significant in the long run.
Upgrade time may be faster in the J41 as well. Your bud should investigate that. PIC time will make a difference
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g159av8tor
Chicago Style
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Good advice is to take the first class offered. Seniority is like taking a number at the deli--first come, first served.
As for my experience at ACA, when they called offering me the job asking me if I minded flying a turbo-prop, I replied, "with so many pilots without flying jobs, I'm thankful to be offered anything, anywhere." Also, I start upgrade class in the J-41 next month after 6 months with ACA. Certainly an exception and not the rule.
In addition, from what I hear about our CRJ program, I'd choose the J-41 if that class started first. The entire training program is first class from GOS to sims. The instructor corps and support staff are willing to bend over backward to ensure a pilot's success at ACA. They even modified my schedule so I could attend a pair of weddings earlier this summer! I'm sure you'll hear contrary experiences.
Tailwinds...
As for my experience at ACA, when they called offering me the job asking me if I minded flying a turbo-prop, I replied, "with so many pilots without flying jobs, I'm thankful to be offered anything, anywhere." Also, I start upgrade class in the J-41 next month after 6 months with ACA. Certainly an exception and not the rule.
In addition, from what I hear about our CRJ program, I'd choose the J-41 if that class started first. The entire training program is first class from GOS to sims. The instructor corps and support staff are willing to bend over backward to ensure a pilot's success at ACA. They even modified my schedule so I could attend a pair of weddings earlier this summer! I'm sure you'll hear contrary experiences.
Tailwinds...
Lumber Yak
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Take the "Dork" jet and run....
Yeah, of course take the first course available... But if you have a choice - take the Dornierjet - or the "Dork." The EFIS system will be difficult to learn at first, but after you master it, you could probably fly the Space Shuttle - that would be excellent training. I have ACA friends who flew the J41 and hated it - loud props and low altitudes... Sure the D328Jet is not much faster than the J41, but it IS a jet (you want jet time) and it's cockpit is MORE SOPHISTICATED than the CRJ - it is a Primus 2000 system - the same as the Citation X.
I hear the D328JET is a blast to fly - with an incredible takeoff ascent rate. The J41, although more sophisticated than most props, is an anachronism in the "jet age." Tell your friend to get some good glass time in the "Dork" - he'll love it and he'll learn a lot about glass...
Cheers
Yeah, of course take the first course available... But if you have a choice - take the Dornierjet - or the "Dork." The EFIS system will be difficult to learn at first, but after you master it, you could probably fly the Space Shuttle - that would be excellent training. I have ACA friends who flew the J41 and hated it - loud props and low altitudes... Sure the D328Jet is not much faster than the J41, but it IS a jet (you want jet time) and it's cockpit is MORE SOPHISTICATED than the CRJ - it is a Primus 2000 system - the same as the Citation X.
I hear the D328JET is a blast to fly - with an incredible takeoff ascent rate. The J41, although more sophisticated than most props, is an anachronism in the "jet age." Tell your friend to get some good glass time in the "Dork" - he'll love it and he'll learn a lot about glass...
Cheers
FurloughedAgain
Cabin Heating & Air Tech.
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LumberYak
LumberYak,
I've read a number of the threads you've written and there is one common theme -- jet-envy.
Why the big hurry to fly a jet? Is there not valuable experience to be gained by flying a turboprop (the J41 is also glass by the way)? Since it is unlikely that this pilot will leave the regionals for the better part of a decade why not give him the opportunity to experience every part of our industry.
In my opinion too many of today's young pilots go directly from a Seminole to a Canadair ... they're missing out on not only some valuable experience, but also some fun, challenging flying!
I will stick with my first suggestion -- go with the first available class.
As for you lumber-yak, dont be in such a hurry. Jet-Envy is a terrible thing.
Respectfully,
Current Dornier (prop) pilot
Former Boeing 737, DC9, Saab, Jetstream, Cessna 402 pilot
LumberYak,
I've read a number of the threads you've written and there is one common theme -- jet-envy.
Why the big hurry to fly a jet? Is there not valuable experience to be gained by flying a turboprop (the J41 is also glass by the way)? Since it is unlikely that this pilot will leave the regionals for the better part of a decade why not give him the opportunity to experience every part of our industry.
In my opinion too many of today's young pilots go directly from a Seminole to a Canadair ... they're missing out on not only some valuable experience, but also some fun, challenging flying!
I will stick with my first suggestion -- go with the first available class.
As for you lumber-yak, dont be in such a hurry. Jet-Envy is a terrible thing.
Respectfully,
Current Dornier (prop) pilot
Former Boeing 737, DC9, Saab, Jetstream, Cessna 402 pilot
bobbysamd
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The sooner, the better . . .
In these times, it's more important to take the job. Beggars can't be choosers, although I realize two classes are being offered. Both offer turbine. Tell your "friend" to go for the Jetstream. He'll get his jet experience in due course.
Best of luck in class to your "friend," whatever he decides.
In these times, it's more important to take the job. Beggars can't be choosers, although I realize two classes are being offered. Both offer turbine. Tell your "friend" to go for the Jetstream. He'll get his jet experience in due course.
Best of luck in class to your "friend," whatever he decides.
Lumber Yak
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Furloughedagain,
You need to work on your sour attitude. Perhaps you are not detailed oriented and missed by bio on the side. You also missed my first statement: "If given a CHOICE.... pick the D328Jet." Do you understand what I am saying - it's all about choice.... If he has to take the J41, take it, otherwise take the D328Jet. if given the option.. Get it?
AV8TOR,
Same as above - I was talking about a selection if given a choice between the two aircraft. Yeah, the J41 has EFIS - I have flown on J41s and I have plenty of ACA friends who have flown them and HATED them - their opinion and not yours. I also know a D328Jet Captain who LOVES the airplane - that is why I recommended it. I was basically quoting him...
I was just making recommendations - perhaps you guys could just chill out - I have a right to give my opinion on this forum...
You need to work on your sour attitude. Perhaps you are not detailed oriented and missed by bio on the side. You also missed my first statement: "If given a CHOICE.... pick the D328Jet." Do you understand what I am saying - it's all about choice.... If he has to take the J41, take it, otherwise take the D328Jet. if given the option.. Get it?
AV8TOR,
Same as above - I was talking about a selection if given a choice between the two aircraft. Yeah, the J41 has EFIS - I have flown on J41s and I have plenty of ACA friends who have flown them and HATED them - their opinion and not yours. I also know a D328Jet Captain who LOVES the airplane - that is why I recommended it. I was basically quoting him...
I was just making recommendations - perhaps you guys could just chill out - I have a right to give my opinion on this forum...
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Please also note that ACA traditionally hasn´t given newhires their choice of aircraft on orientation; classes are usually all one type, e.g. my newhire class was approx 20 J41 FOs. Occasionally they will give the option but in general they will not. Just tell you buddy to hurry and get to class, seniority is everything. Also, he will not snag a quick upgrade in the J41 - those will not be appearing again, so the J41 quick PIC time thingy is pretty moot. Irregardless, I expect him to transition to the CRJ after his first year´s up for the $$$
JT
JT
atpcliff
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Hi!
I would take the one where he/she can upgrade to Capt fastest, as the 1000 PIC turbine is important in a lot of jobs.
I trainined in the J41, and liked it a lot.
Skyway (MidEx feeder) stopped buying them and is buying the ERJ because they don't like the -328. My best pilot friend's buddy was taking off in one out of MKE, and the whole cockpit went dark. Not gauges, no emergency gauges, no radios, no navigation equipment of any kind. Luckily, it was VMC (at night) so they came around and landed. If IMC, they would've rode it in. Apparently, there are 3 black boxes near/in the tail. One of them physically came loose, and knocked the other two out. So much for redundant systems.
Cliff
GRB
I would take the one where he/she can upgrade to Capt fastest, as the 1000 PIC turbine is important in a lot of jobs.
I trainined in the J41, and liked it a lot.
Skyway (MidEx feeder) stopped buying them and is buying the ERJ because they don't like the -328. My best pilot friend's buddy was taking off in one out of MKE, and the whole cockpit went dark. Not gauges, no emergency gauges, no radios, no navigation equipment of any kind. Luckily, it was VMC (at night) so they came around and landed. If IMC, they would've rode it in. Apparently, there are 3 black boxes near/in the tail. One of them physically came loose, and knocked the other two out. So much for redundant systems.
Cliff
GRB
Av8tor
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Lumber Yak said:
Lumber Yak, I was also just making a recommendation about the subject! Having flown BOTH the J41 & D328jet of course I would take the jet if given the chance. But I am grateful to have flown 1000+hrs in the J41 turboprop before going to the 328. Im just saying to get your seniority number ASAP. So why don't you chill out!!
atpcliff said:
No emergency gauges? meaning Stby instruments? i find that hard to believe. I know the 328 systems VERY well. Stby gauges have their own power source. We have had a few cockpits go "dark" on the 328. But not one of them lost the Stby gauges also. The "black boxes" are not a driving source for anything on the aircraft. They are recording devices.
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KingAirKiddo
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LumberYak
Furloughed Again simply stated that your friend should take the first slot available to him due to the importance of obtaining a higher seniority number. I do not feel that this reflects a "sour" attitude. Quite to the contrary, I have always found FA's posts to be very insightful and genuine.
Not trying to step on your toes or anything, just letting you know that I think you are being a bit more defensive than is really necessary.
Regards,
KAK
Furloughed Again simply stated that your friend should take the first slot available to him due to the importance of obtaining a higher seniority number. I do not feel that this reflects a "sour" attitude. Quite to the contrary, I have always found FA's posts to be very insightful and genuine.
Not trying to step on your toes or anything, just letting you know that I think you are being a bit more defensive than is really necessary.
Regards,
KAK
StaySeated
IBT does not represent ME
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Upgrade
The only two things I would consider would be seniority and upgrade. You mentioned there would only be a ten day difference in training. More importantly, how many people would be in the first class. If it is three, I would think long and hard before I passed it up. If it is ten, I wouldn't pass it up regardless.
If one type upgrades much faster than another, I may consider passing up a class and giving up seniority in an effort to get PIC time quicker. Very few if any major airline applications differentiate between turboprop and jet. It is all turbine time.
As for the "glass" comments above, I totally disagree. I flew the 1900 for three years with no autopilot and no flight attendant and no heat and no ac and all that krap. It was the most fun I have ever had in an airplane. My skills were also at their peak when I was flying the beech (which means I still suked, just not as bad). We will all get to fly jets with plenty of screens and buttons. Enjoy the journey and try and fly the wonderful performing props before they all go away.
btw, cliff was right about the Skyway 328 prob. The "box" that moved was one of the IAC's, which caused all of the DU's to freeze. The only very minor points to correct are that the IAC's are behind the pilots not in the back and that the standby instruments still operated.
One more by the way, it never ceases to amaze me how the most mundane questions can result in a pising match on this board.
The only two things I would consider would be seniority and upgrade. You mentioned there would only be a ten day difference in training. More importantly, how many people would be in the first class. If it is three, I would think long and hard before I passed it up. If it is ten, I wouldn't pass it up regardless.
If one type upgrades much faster than another, I may consider passing up a class and giving up seniority in an effort to get PIC time quicker. Very few if any major airline applications differentiate between turboprop and jet. It is all turbine time.
As for the "glass" comments above, I totally disagree. I flew the 1900 for three years with no autopilot and no flight attendant and no heat and no ac and all that krap. It was the most fun I have ever had in an airplane. My skills were also at their peak when I was flying the beech (which means I still suked, just not as bad). We will all get to fly jets with plenty of screens and buttons. Enjoy the journey and try and fly the wonderful performing props before they all go away.
btw, cliff was right about the Skyway 328 prob. The "box" that moved was one of the IAC's, which caused all of the DU's to freeze. The only very minor points to correct are that the IAC's are behind the pilots not in the back and that the standby instruments still operated.
One more by the way, it never ceases to amaze me how the most mundane questions can result in a pising match on this board.
g159av8tor
Chicago Style
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- Nov 28, 2001
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Take the first class available. Although some circumstances preclude this (low time, seat lock), the only way to upgrade in any type of airplane before someone else is by holding a higher seniority number. For example, pilots upgrade from J-41 FO to CRJ or FRJ captain depending on seniority. There is NO requirement to have any prior experience in type to upgrade.
Anyway, things are really moving on the J-41 side as pilots leave the FO seat. I was hired as 125 in the seat. Then moved up to 95 my second month online. For my fourth month online I'm sitting at 73 out of 212; now in the upper third.
If you don't like the airplane you're hired into, transition after a year. Only seniority will give you that option, and-god forbid-furlough protection.
Tailwinds...
Anyway, things are really moving on the J-41 side as pilots leave the FO seat. I was hired as 125 in the seat. Then moved up to 95 my second month online. For my fourth month online I'm sitting at 73 out of 212; now in the upper third.
If you don't like the airplane you're hired into, transition after a year. Only seniority will give you that option, and-god forbid-furlough protection.
Tailwinds...
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