It's one list and one contract for Pinna-col-aba

[General Lee]

What's that saying about people who live in glass houses?

C'mon, Genital Lee. You have to admit that much of the blame lies with Delta mainline and the relaxation of their scope. It's just too bad mainline pilots will never learn this lesson. You can always bet they will remain short-sighted and take the money when it comes to scope. Can't wait to see the 100 seaters start popping up at the DCI carriers.

Even I admit that it did get off to a bad start at mainline, allowing 50 and even 70 seaters. But, that is where it stopped, until a BK judge forced the issue. If you think that is not correct, then you are WRONG. Since then thousands of DL Captains have left with their lump sum retirements, and the remaining pilots, along with the NWA pilots that joined the list HATE RJs even more. Everyone remaining has been able to see how RJs have ruined this industry, and now even though they are starting to go away (50 seaters and smaller--like E135s), scope is still a HUGE issue. Thanks to recent profits and cash on hand amounts near $5 billion, another slap from a BK judge seems very UNLIKELY, which is BAD for any RJ operator out there. Do you think the CAL/UAL guys will just let Scope slide on this upcoming joint contract? Heck no. They all want raises, but they will NAIL scope down there. Will it be the same at DL? I would have to say a big YES.

Something interesting to point out---at a very recent newhire class at DL, the newhires supposedly heard something interesting, like "Delta would like to bring back some of the 76 seat RJs back into mainline." Why would they say that? Could it be the new law recently signed that states the legacy airlines that use Regionals as their feed could be found liable for a crash at that Regional? (CAL and Colgan? Colgan is trying to dump the name and get on Mesaba's certificate as fast as possible) Sure, that could be a reason, and maybe the legacies just don't trust the training at some of the Regionals, which could cost them BIG bucks if there is a crash again. When asked how DL could take back some 76 seaters, the people replied "We own some of those planes." It would be a good start, and Dalpa already has the pay rates in writing.

Guess what hairy Palm? I don't know one pilot that would vote away a 100 seater. Not one. Keep dreaming, and maybe someday you will also grow some branches on your ding a ling and maybe ask a girl out for a soda.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Smarta$$]

Even I admit that it did get off to a bad start at mainline, allowing 50 and even 70 seaters. But, that is where it stopped, until a BK judge forced the issue. If you think that is not correct, then you are WRONG. Since then thousands of DL Captains have left with their lump sum retirements, and the remaining pilots, along with the NWA pilots that joined the list HATE RJs even more. Everyone remaining has been able to see how RJs have ruined this industry, and now even though they are starting to go away (50 seaters and smaller--like E135s), scope is still a HUGE issue. Thanks to recent profits and cash on hand amounts near $5 billion, another slap from a BK judge seems very UNLIKELY, which is BAD for any RJ operator out there. Do you think the CAL/UAL guys will just let Scope slide on this upcoming joint contract? Heck no. They all want raises, but they will NAIL scope down there. Will it be the same at DL? I would have to say a big YES.

Something interesting to point out---at a very recent newhire class at DL, the newhires supposedly heard something interesting, like "Delta would like to bring back some of the 76 seat RJs back into mainline." Why would they say that? Could it be the new law recently signed that states the legacy airlines that use Regionals as their feed could be found liable for a crash at that Regional? (CAL and Colgan? Colgan is trying to dump the name and get on Mesaba's certificate as fast as possible) Sure, that could be a reason, and maybe the legacies just don't trust the training at some of the Regionals, which could cost them BIG bucks if there is a crash again. When asked how DL could take back some 76 seaters, the people replied "We own some of those planes." It would be a good start, and Dalpa already has the pay rates in writing.

Guess what hairy Palm? I don't know one pilot that would vote away a 100 seater. Not one. Keep dreaming, and maybe someday you will also grow some branches on your ding a ling and maybe ask a girl out for a soda.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hope you are right about scope. The liability law should have been in place from day one. Mainline carriers should be held RESPONSIBLE if they contract with a sleazy contractor such as Pinnacle, Mesa, Colgan...

 

[Flyer1015]

For the first time in 5+ years we have one word.... Leverage.

We don't have leverage. We've never had, and never will. Too many pu$$ies who fly on vacations, pick up open time at 200%, and work double-hard to ensure on time departures and arrivals.

And look how Mesaba and Colgan got interim contracts until a joint agreement is reached, and Pinnacle management has given us nothing but the middle finger! And add continued insult to injury, all the money that WE have made has been pumped into Colgan to buy their shiny new Q400s. So please spare me the "leverage" talk. When will 9E pilots wake up and realize that there is nothing 'good' coming from all this merger mania and airline buyouts.

 

[belliott]

We don't have leverage. We've never had, and never will. Too many pu$$ies who fly on vacations, pick up open time at 200%, and work double-hard to ensure on time departures and arrivals.

And look how Mesaba and Colgan got interim contracts until a joint agreement is reached, and Pinnacle management has given us nothing but the middle finger! And add continued insult to injury, all the money that WE have made has been pumped into Colgan to buy their shiny new Q400s. So please spare me the "leverage" talk. When will 9E pilots wake up and realize that there is nothing 'good' coming from all this merger mania and airline buyouts.

Colgan does not have an interim contract... we still have no contract whatsoever... lord knows I wish we had an interim contact but nope...

 

[Flyer1015]

Then why were we being told you guys are getting basically the equivalent of XJ rates/contract?

 

[Kaman]

We don't have leverage. We've never had, and never will. Too many pu$$ies who fly on vacations, pick up open time at 200%, and work double-hard to ensure on time departures and arrivals.

I agree with almost all of that statement until the bit about the "working double-hard to ensure on-time arrivals/departures. I think that you should read over the ALPA code of ethics again...I am not trying to sound high and mighty, but that kind of attitude is not only unprofessional. It is also downright offensive if not borderline unsafe.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Something interesting to point out---at a very recent newhire class at DL, the newhires supposedly heard something interesting, like "Delta would like to bring back some of the 76 seat RJs back into mainline." Why would they say that? Could it be the new law recently signed that states the legacy airlines that use Regionals as their feed could be found liable for a crash at that Regional? (CAL and Colgan? Colgan is trying to dump the name and get on Mesaba's certificate as fast as possible) Sure, that could be a reason, and maybe the legacies just don't trust the training at some of the Regionals, which could cost them BIG bucks if there is a crash again. When asked how DL could take back some 76 seaters, the people replied "We own some of those planes." It would be a good start, and Dalpa already has the pay rates in writing.

I think DL owns the majority of them don't they? All of Comair's, Mesaba, and Compass' for sure. That is quite a few planes.

That would be good news for all. Granted near term I would get canned from Comair, but would open up much better potential jobs in the future

 

[belliott]

Then why were we being told you guys are getting basically the equivalent of XJ rates/contract?

I don't know why but my paychecks still suck... and there has been zero word of us getting a pay increase (as if they would willing give us one)... when all of this is sorted out I want a XJ+ contract... no sense in suffering without any reward for all at the end of it.

 

[NotTooBad]

Oh we get it. We just see the reality while you live in fantasy land. Pilots at the majors keep going for those short term contract gains while giving up their livelihoods in scope. Why would I want to go to a major when I know the senior guys that run ALPA will just sell my job back to the regionals to line their own pockets?

Can you fill me in on when recently has a major airline given up scope other than in a bankruptcy?

 

[Raskal]

I don't know why but my paychecks still suck... and there has been zero word of us getting a pay increase (as if they would willing give us one)... when all of this is sorted out I want a XJ+ contract... no sense in suffering without any reward for all at the end of it.

Don't be so quick to use XJ as the goal, as a downgraded 900 FO at Mesaba I make less than my counterparts at Pinnacle...I was kind of excited about the purchase since I might get a raise

 

[belliott]

Don't be so quick to use XJ as the goal, as a downgraded 900 FO at Mesaba I make less than my counterparts at Pinnacle...I was kind of excited about the purchase since I might get a raise

Thus the XJ+(plus some). I believe XJ is operating under a recessionary/bankruptcy contract and I don't see why they/we should need to continue to operate under said contract. As far as making less than your Pinnacle -900 counterparts I think that is one of downfalls of utilizing a blended pay scale.

 

[mesaba13]

Are you sure you make less than a Pinnacle counterpart? 401K, Min day, per diem, trip gurantee,?

 

[TurboAWD]

One of the biggest problems with the current XJ contract is the blended FO rate. Worked OK with lots of props and few jets, doesn't work well the other way around. I don't think that will be in a JCBA. One of the others is the BS CH11 healthcare.

 

[FightingIrish]

Glad to see this. We are making progress with XJ, PNCL, and Colgan on one list. Then if we get Skywest/ASA/XJET on one list and TransStates/Compass/Gojet can get on one list we will be in much better shape. Glad to see ALPA going after single lists.

 

[Raskal]

My point wasn't to complain about our contract, but to merely point out that all of the contracts have weak points and the goal moving forward should be to address them rather than blindly apply a template.

We really do have an opportunity to at least make some, if not substantial, progress in many areas. So, maybe Skywest plus is a more impressive goal.