It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[abefly]

FROM DOCUMENT 178, US AIR CROSS MOTION


I. CBAS REMAIN BINDING ON THE PARTIES UNDER THE RLA
NOTWITHSTANDING ANY CHANGE IN REPRESENTATION.​

USAPA relies on​

​

​

​

Association of Flight Attendants v USAir, Inc., 24 F.3d 1432,1438-39 (D.C. Cir. 1994) (“USAir”), in support of its argument that the TransitionAgreement is not binding on USAPA. (See Doc. No. 160 at 8:1-10:17.) This reliance,however, is misplaced. The USAir decision compels precisely the opposite conclusion:​

namely, that the Transition Agreement is binding on USAPA (as well as on US Airways).

 

[abefly]

A sad reminder, 4 years and USAPA has not accomplished one thing. So much for that 90 day contract.​

The Nicolau Seniority List Was Issued on May 3, 2007 that was
1819 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago







The Merger was Announced on May 19, 2005 that was
2533 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago









USAPA took over on April 18, 2008 that was
1468 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago









LOA93 was signed on October 21, 2004 and the East pilots have been the lowest paid in the industry for
2743 days 09 hours 47 minutes 05 seconds

 

[reepicheep]

A hypothetical question. Has anyone seen how a nic type list fits within the APA list? I can tell you this much, if the nic list places a 2005 AW pilot in a relative position to an AA 1980's pilot, good luck with that.
Its already been decided.

The 2005 AWA hire has about 600 active pilots junior to him on the Nic. which is what, 12% up from the bottom? So what hire date at AA gets you 12% up from the bottom - that's around 1000 pilots from the bottom?

I have a feeling it's nowhere near a late 80's hire. More like late 90's; someone on here can probably pin it down for us.

So yeah; you could have a list with a USAir '88 hire, an AA '98 hire, and an AWA '05 hire adjacent to each other.

 

[Scoot 11]

Listen cry baby you just crossed a line with me mister! USAPA was formed to represent pilots and to not deal with the ALPO bs from you DAL types. USAPA was formed to recognize and value the only thing we as pilots can hang our hats on: DATE Of HiRe!!
The rookies out west are the problem and always have been for this reason. Let mevput it to you this way, if DAL merges with ASA are they your equal? Didnt think so.
But for you to imply USAPA pilots are unethical is OUTRAGEOUS!


No word of a suspension, nothing else. Needless to say OYS isn't very happy. ASADFW7 is a loose cannon and needs to get off the throne.

No junior. USAPA was formed to try and overthrow a BINDING ARBITRATION AWARD. But please, for entertainment purposes, keep up the drivel. It's quite hysterical.
All that experience you tout on here, and you simply can't get past 2nd grade spelling. :laugh:

 

[B-atch]

The 2005 AWA hire has about 600 active pilots junior to him on the Nic. which is what, 12% up from the bottom? So what hire date at AA gets you 12% up from the bottom - that's around 1000 pilots from the bottom?

I have a feeling it's nowhere near a late 80's hire. More like late 90's; someone on here can probably pin it down for us.

So yeah; you could have a list with a USAir '88 hire, an AA '98 hire, and an AWA '05 hire adjacent to each other.

Are you forgetting the 3rd listers? The number is more like 1000 behind a 2005 AW hire. This puts him/her a bit higher on the % list..

 

[abefly]

Are you forgetting the 3rd listers? The number is more like 1000 behind a 2005 AW hire. This puts him/her a bit higher on the % list..

As it should be

 

[B-atch]

As it should be

"Should"....Not necessarily "WILL"

 

[shon7]

and yet bankers want to buy into this and attempt to merge!

 

[B-atch]

Money has a way of curing all evils. If all affected parties reach mutual agreement then the new AA has potential to become an industry TITAN.

 

[ultrarunner]

Money has a way of curing all evils. If all affected parties reach mutual agreement then the new AA has potential to become an industry TITAN.

But you know damn well the USAPA thinks they can submarine that issue. You know, the whole "gold standard" issue...

This should be fun to watch, and while I don't expect that USAPA will be asked for their opinion, it will be interesting to hear their 'spin'.

 

[Tweaker]

From USAPA - "At first glance, it appears that the APA's CBA that may result from the term sheet between APA/US Airways will be concessionary in nearly every section when initially compared to our own contract, with the only exception being the hourly rates of pay."

Well, that don't sound so tasty at all. Between the increased productivity that would result in a lesser need for swinging richards and the relative youth at APA, I am less erect about this merger now.

I hope that the quote above is just sour grapes. They also stated that they had NOT seen any more detailed info than is readily available over the internet.

 

[ackattacker]

From USAPA - "At first glance, it appears that the APA's CBA that may result from the term sheet between APA/US Airways will be concessionary in nearly every section when initially compared to our own contract, with the only exception being the hourly rates of pay."

Well, that don't sound so tasty at all. Between the increased productivity that would result in a lesser need for swinging richards and the relative youth at APA, I am less erect about this merger now.

I hope that the quote above is just sour grapes. They also stated that they had NOT seen any more detailed info than is readily available over the internet.

The term sheet is posted, go have a look:

http://www.restructuringamr.com/documents/APA Term Sheet Source Document_v10_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf

Certainly concessionary compared to the current APA contract, and pretty bad even compared to the current LCC craptastic contract. A few things stick out at me, 4:1 trip rig, no duty rig, PBS, no monthly guarantee for lineholders, no guarantee protection for reserves who call fatigued, Sick leave is a sad joke (really sad... call in sick more than twice a year, get paid at 60% and report to an "accredited absence management vendor"), scope gutted letting loose the flood of 88 seat RJ's, truly unlimited codeshare.

Does seem a bit like the devil is asking for your soul in exchange for that pot of gold.

 

[IBNAV8R]

The "gold standard" is nothing more than working hard to make your company successful enough to save about 3,800 brothers from wearing blue greeters' vests and then expecting those you saved to abide by a simple and fair agreement, and not try to take a giant $#!* on you.

It's like inviting my uncle, who's been down on his luck lately, to come stay with me a while. You know, the one who lost his job (company went bankrupt due to inept management), lost his house, wife left, and staying with his girlfriend and her husband isn't an option.

Except when he gets there, he expects the master bedroom, my La-Z-Boy, the big screen TV, 70% of the space in the fridge, unlimited use of the kegerator, the Caddie, the Harley, my old lady on Friday and Saturday, and ALL of the garage.

 

[ackattacker]

The "gold standard" is nothing more than working hard to make your company successful enough to save about 3,800 brothers from wearing blue greeters' vests and then expecting those you saved to abide by a simple and fair agreement, and not try to take a giant $#!* on you.

It's like inviting my uncle, who's been down on his luck lately, to come stay with me a while. You know, the one who lost his job (company went bankrupt due to inept management), lost his house, wife left, and staying with his girlfriend and her husband isn't an option.

Except when he gets there, he expects the master bedroom, my La-Z-Boy, the big screen TV, 70% of the space in the fridge, unlimited use of the kegerator, the Caddie, the Harley, my old lady on Friday and Saturday, and ALL of the garage.

On behalf of all pilots everywhere, let me be the first to thank you, IBNAV8R, for your selfless charity. Your hard work and has saved the careers of so many.

 

[B-atch]

The term sheet is posted, go have a look:

http://www.restructuringamr.com/documents/APA Term Sheet Source Document_v10_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf

Certainly concessionary compared to the current APA contract, and pretty bad even compared to the current LCC craptastic contract. A few things stick out at me, 4:1 trip rigo, no duty rig, PBS, no monthly guarantee for lineholders, no guarantee protection for reserves who call fatigued, Sick leave is a sad joke (really sad... call in sick more than twice a year, get paid at 60% and report to an "accredited absence management vendor"), scope gutted letting loose the flood of 88 seat RJ's, truly unlimited codeshare.

Does seem a bit like the devil is asking for your soul in exchange for that pot of gold.

o
Thats the initial term sheet presented to the APA by AMR. The USA/APA proposal is no were near that draconian.