It's official, no deal now

[FDJ2]

Our ZIPLINES will come out today.

Both sides understand the concerns that the other side has with each proposal. That's why there's a chance a deal can be made.

Occam, I love your optimism, but I don't share it.

The DAL MEC is moving on as I'm sure the NWA MEC is, or ought to be. Lee Moak's letter effectively ends the discussion from our end, he wouldn't have put it out otherwise. The NWA MEC has come back before and asked to reengage, but nothing brought forward has been even close to acceptable. Each proposal is just another version of a wish list.

I stated early on this wasn't about "getting the best deal we can get" it was about getting the fairest deal for all. A fundamental shift in approach.

I was a supporter of the merger under the right circumstances, but too much valuable time has already been wasted and I'm no longer as supportive. I'm sure many DAL pilots feel the same.

We need to attend to our own affairs. If there is something of interest proposed I'm sure our merger committee will look at it, but like I said I'm not optimistic, we've been down this road too many times already. Perhaps at this point it is best that since we can't agree, we go our separate ways. No hard feelings.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Another part of the puzzle that has only been vaguely alluded to is that management has not had the time to re-evaluate their position on the merger given the prospects for long term oil being $110. Management does not yet know what the market is going to be and a DC9 that made sense with a $70 oil assumption might not be supported in the market now.

NWA and Delta really need a 100 seat jet. CRJ200's are too small and unfortunately a CRJ700/900 is a better fit than going over capacity with a 142 seat MD88.

Jet Blue anyone. Luthansa might have really been thinking ahead defensively with their "investment."

 

[Gunfighter]

I've always felt a little sorry for the homely girl who thinks she's hot.

And even sorrier for the girl who thinks she is hot just because someone asked her to dance. It's early in the night and the really hot girls haven't even show up yet.

 

[LandGreen]

Can anyone tell me why it is such a good idea to merge with NWA with oil at $110?

The only reason DAL wanted NWA is for the Pacific. With oil @ $60 then maybe it would make sense to absorb old fleets and slowly phase them out ...but now with oil the way it is, NWA makes NO sense at all after absorbing the extremely high cost of operating those two fleets.

DAL was the first of the majors to announce cutbacks. Do you think they will be the only ones out there trimming capacity??? Who is making money nowadays in the airline business paying market prices for fuel? NOBODY!

BTW...the 50 seat RJ market...GONE...with oil the way it is today

 

[Gunfighter]

Delta's announcement today could well be one of the many parts of the overall merger plan anyway. There will be some admin, mgt and front line reductions with a merger, they are just getting some of those reductions out of the way while the pilots sort things out. Give it a couple more weeks, before declaring it over.

Trimming people now means that those job losses won't be attributed to a merger. This gets real interesting if NWA starts trimming. Imagine for a moment that RA and DS are cutting pieces ahead of the announcement. It makes the whole merger eaiser to push through because the thousands of jobs they planned to cut are already gone.

Slam dunk at the merger hearings.

 

[ExAF]

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.....

 

[FDJ2]

Delta's announcement today could well be one of the many parts of the overall merger plan anyway. There will be some admin, mgt and front line reductions with a merger, they are just getting some of those reductions out of the way while the pilots sort things out. Give it a couple more weeks, before declaring it over.

Trimming people now means that those job losses won't be attributed to a merger. This gets real interesting if NWA starts trimming. Imagine for a moment that RA and DS are cutting pieces ahead of the announcement. It makes the whole merger eaiser to push through because the thousands of jobs they planned to cut are already gone.

Slam dunk at the merger hearings.

Or it could be the economic reality of $110/bbl oil.

The fact is that costs for every airline will probably go up faster than revenue. Every airline needs to make adjustments.

 

[Schwanker]

My calculator shows 3446 retirements between now and 2023 and about 2300 by 2020....... Stop posting absolute crap and educate yourself before you post. Your making yourself look very stupid at this point.

THESE NUMBERS WERE POSTED BY YOUR VERY OWN GENERAL! BETWEEN NOW AND 1 JAN 2020, DAL WILL HAVE 1007 AGE 65 RETIREMENTS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET A NEW CALCULATOR! YOUR CURRENT ONE MAKES YOU LOOK STUPID!

DAL RETIREMENTS from our list
2013-60,
2014-75,
2015-89,
2016-136,
2017-157,
2018-218,
2019-272,
2020-348,
2021-478,
2022-567,
2023-549,
2024-544,
2025-472

 

[tomgoodman]

A disgruntled analyst's view

The press is looking for someone to blame:

Already, some Wall Street analysts are questioning whether Delta management was in fact committed to making the Northwest merger happen. To be sure, there was pressure on Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson to negotiate a deal: Many of the hedge funds that bought Delta debt during the carrier's 2005 bankruptcy—and converted it into sizable equity stakes when the airline emerged from Chapter 11 the following year—were pushing management to pursue a merger.

And when Anderson asked the pilot unions from Delta and Northwest to find a way to combine the seniority lists for both carriers, it appeared to be a prudent move to avoid the pilot infighting that has poisoned the merger between the former US Airways Group (LCC) and America West.

But looking back, Anderson—who before joining Delta last year had served as CEO of Northwest—had to have known enough about each of the pilots' unions to think it unlikely they would find common ground. With hundreds of Delta pilots opting to retire before the bankruptcy, the remaining pilots were on average far younger than their peers at Northwest. That meant that in a merger, many Delta pilots would be bumped back to flying smaller planes—an action that would also have meant taking a pay cut.

And when Northwest pilots refused to cede too much ground on the seniority issue, Delta pilots opted to walk. "Pilots are like a bunch of spoiled kids, and it would have required adult supervision to make the merger work," says Roger King, airline analyst for CreditSights, an institutional research firm in New York. "It's a testament to management's impotence that the deal wasn't done—or more probably, to management's real desire to not do the deal. I think they pursued the merger just to get the shareholders off their backs."

--Business Week

 

[Occam's Razor]

Occam, I love your optimism, but I don't share it.

I gather. Luckily, the process doesn't depend upon your (or my) optimism.

The DAL MEC is moving on as I'm sure the NWA MEC is, or ought to be.

It might be better to be prepared to re-engage. The DAL MEC doesn't drive the need to meet. The NWA doesn't either. The "drivers" are individuals in corner offices in Wayzata, New York, and Paris.

Lee Moak's letter effectively ends the discussion from our end, he wouldn't have put it out otherwise.

Ha! Good one! I think you'd be more of an optimist if you were wise to "alternative negotiating" techniques. In baseball, it'd be called the "set-up pitch".

The February 27th "DEADLINE!" was another.

The first few "Final Offers!" fit the same general description.

The NWA MEC has come back before and asked to reengage, but nothing brought forward has been even close to acceptable. Each proposal is just another version of a wish list.

Is that rhetoric necessary? I'm not trying to be your EGPWS here, but "Pull Up!". You're getting close to to the intellectual gutter with comments like that.

I stated early on this wasn't about "getting the best deal we can get" it was about getting the fairest deal for all. A fundamental shift in approach.

"Fair" is not possible. Reasonable is possible. Likely, in fact...if both sides accept the amount of "equal blood" (a negotiating term) shed by the other. Reasonable means the position can be supported with accepted facts.

I was a supporter of the merger under the right circumstances, but too much valuable time has already been wasted and I'm no longer as supportive. I'm sure many DAL pilots feel the same.

Good! That means we're probably getting closer to the realm of "equal blood". When you're pissed...lemme know! :beer:

We need to attend to our own affairs.

If you're implication is you've been attending to OUR affairs...then "Whoop! Whoop!".

Your team's participation in all of this hasn't been a Mercy Mission to rescue the crew of a foundering ship. It's been an interest-based negotiation to do something that's never been done before. There is no blueprint for this.

I object to your characterization, unless, of course...it's another "DEADLINE!".

Some of the things we try are attempted because the alternative is worse.