Jack-O-Lantern
The Central Scrutinizer
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Its all up to Comair now!
- Thread starter Jack-O-Lantern
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That precedent was set a long time ago. It aint no race...more like a full on power dive. The worst is it will be repeated about every five years for ______ your airline name here.
This is no game and the employees think it is.
My prediction: One of the 3 employee groups (pilots, f/a, mechs) will blow the deal with DAL....leading to the ultimate demise and liquidation of Comair within 90days. Skywest will take over.....What? You thought their massive plans to hire and aircraft orders were just a coincidence?
BTW: Here is an Associated Press link to DAL spokesman saying it's ALREADY too late thanks to the Comair pilots.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news...z.yahoo.com/ap/060928/comair_unions.html?.v=2
My prediction: One of the 3 employee groups (pilots, f/a, mechs) will blow the deal with DAL....leading to the ultimate demise and liquidation of Comair within 90days. Skywest will take over.....What? You thought their massive plans to hire and aircraft orders were just a coincidence?
BTW: Here is an Associated Press link to DAL spokesman saying it's ALREADY too late thanks to the Comair pilots.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news...z.yahoo.com/ap/060928/comair_unions.html?.v=2
Last edited:
imacdog
Well-known member
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Nice link except it's a Comair spokesperson doing the talking. We all know how much management likes to throw out propaganda. I realize the seriousness of the situation as I will be among the first to be furloughed if Comair loses flying (it will be my second furlough in a year), but when the company is no longer negotiating in good faith then it's time to pack up and move on. I believe most in our pilot group are willing to make a fair deal but what the company is doing is reaching beyond what they truly need.
Last edited:
General Lee
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AP
Comair Doubts It Can Make Winning Bid
Thursday September 28, 7:42 pm ET
By Lisa Cornwell Comair: Concessions Needed to Win Bid for Delta Service Unlikely
CINCINNATI (AP) -- Comair likely will not win union concessions soon enough to make a winning bid next week for regional jet service from its parent Delta Air Lines Inc., Comair's top executive said Thursday.
Comair President Don Bornhorst said that without competitive costs, it's unlikely that Comair can keep flying all the 50-seat and 70-seat jets that are part of its bid. It's also unlikely the carrier will be awarded a contract to fly new aircraft.
"I don't know where our air operations will stop shrinking without a competitive cost structure," Bornhorst said. "I know the first steps will be the 70-seaters going away, not winning new planes and maybe some of the 50-seaters."
If Comair's air operations continue to shrink, the airline will have to focus on growth in other areas such as ground handling of passengers or maintenance operations, Bornhorst said.
"We are all out of time," he said.
The airline, based in nearby Erlanger, Ky., planned to meet again Friday with flight attendants and was meeting with the mechanics union Thursday.
Bornhorst said he was most concerned about the pilots union, which he said had not scheduled talks with the company again until next week, after the bidding deadline.
"Overall, the pilots union seems to believe that this is a game Delta is playing," he said. "Getting them to recognize the seriousness of this and what is at stake is one of the most challenging things we've had to undertake."
The pilots understand what's at stake and want a deal, said J.C. Lawson, an executive vice president with the Air Line Pilots Association representing Comair's 1,500 pilots and master chairman of the local union.
"The company is the one that chose not to meet until Oct. 3," Lawson said. "We have been ready to meet anytime, anywhere."
Delta announced Aug. 22 that it had requested bids for some of its regional jet service, much of which is now handled by Comair. Five days later, Comair Flight 5191 crashed in Lexington, Ky., killing 49 people, and Delta agreed to extend the Sept. 18 deadline for Comair to Oct. 2.
Comair and Delta are trying to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection filed last year. Comair has said that it must have concessions from flight attendants, mechanics and pilots to get out of bankruptcy and compete with other airlines.
Bornhorst said that the airline is at the point where it will have to reach a deal with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters representing Comair's 970 flight attendants or impose contract changes approved through U.S. Bankruptcy Court. The flight attendants have said the cuts asked of them go deeper into their wages and benefits than those demanded of pilots and mechanics and have threatened to strike if concessions are imposed.
Teamsters spokesman Galen Munroe confirmed that the union would meet with Comair on Friday.
Comair had earlier reached an agreement with its pilots for $17.3 million in cuts and for $1 million from its mechanics, but those deals were contingent on Comair getting $8.9 million in givebacks from flight attendants. Talks resumed with the pilots and mechanics after Comair said it has reduced the flight attendant concessions to $7.9 million.
Bornhorst said Thursday that Comair has reduced pilots' concessions to $16.3 million, but Lawson disputed that, saying that the company had only lowered the concessions to about $17.2 million.
"We have proposed $14 million, and that amounts to a great deal for the pilots," Lawson said.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing Comair's 550 mechanics and the airline said they agreed not to comment on mechanic concessions while talks continued. Comair has 6,500 employees and operates about 882 flights daily to 103 cities.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Comair Doubts It Can Make Winning Bid
Thursday September 28, 7:42 pm ET
By Lisa Cornwell Comair: Concessions Needed to Win Bid for Delta Service Unlikely
CINCINNATI (AP) -- Comair likely will not win union concessions soon enough to make a winning bid next week for regional jet service from its parent Delta Air Lines Inc., Comair's top executive said Thursday.
Comair President Don Bornhorst said that without competitive costs, it's unlikely that Comair can keep flying all the 50-seat and 70-seat jets that are part of its bid. It's also unlikely the carrier will be awarded a contract to fly new aircraft.
"I don't know where our air operations will stop shrinking without a competitive cost structure," Bornhorst said. "I know the first steps will be the 70-seaters going away, not winning new planes and maybe some of the 50-seaters."
If Comair's air operations continue to shrink, the airline will have to focus on growth in other areas such as ground handling of passengers or maintenance operations, Bornhorst said.
"We are all out of time," he said.
The airline, based in nearby Erlanger, Ky., planned to meet again Friday with flight attendants and was meeting with the mechanics union Thursday.
Bornhorst said he was most concerned about the pilots union, which he said had not scheduled talks with the company again until next week, after the bidding deadline.
"Overall, the pilots union seems to believe that this is a game Delta is playing," he said. "Getting them to recognize the seriousness of this and what is at stake is one of the most challenging things we've had to undertake."
The pilots understand what's at stake and want a deal, said J.C. Lawson, an executive vice president with the Air Line Pilots Association representing Comair's 1,500 pilots and master chairman of the local union.
"The company is the one that chose not to meet until Oct. 3," Lawson said. "We have been ready to meet anytime, anywhere."
Delta announced Aug. 22 that it had requested bids for some of its regional jet service, much of which is now handled by Comair. Five days later, Comair Flight 5191 crashed in Lexington, Ky., killing 49 people, and Delta agreed to extend the Sept. 18 deadline for Comair to Oct. 2.
Comair and Delta are trying to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection filed last year. Comair has said that it must have concessions from flight attendants, mechanics and pilots to get out of bankruptcy and compete with other airlines.
Bornhorst said that the airline is at the point where it will have to reach a deal with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters representing Comair's 970 flight attendants or impose contract changes approved through U.S. Bankruptcy Court. The flight attendants have said the cuts asked of them go deeper into their wages and benefits than those demanded of pilots and mechanics and have threatened to strike if concessions are imposed.
Teamsters spokesman Galen Munroe confirmed that the union would meet with Comair on Friday.
Comair had earlier reached an agreement with its pilots for $17.3 million in cuts and for $1 million from its mechanics, but those deals were contingent on Comair getting $8.9 million in givebacks from flight attendants. Talks resumed with the pilots and mechanics after Comair said it has reduced the flight attendant concessions to $7.9 million.
Bornhorst said Thursday that Comair has reduced pilots' concessions to $16.3 million, but Lawson disputed that, saying that the company had only lowered the concessions to about $17.2 million.
"We have proposed $14 million, and that amounts to a great deal for the pilots," Lawson said.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing Comair's 550 mechanics and the airline said they agreed not to comment on mechanic concessions while talks continued. Comair has 6,500 employees and operates about 882 flights daily to 103 cities.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
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- 20,442
Give me an actual example in HISTORY that shows such a colapse, thanks to a 9-11 event, economy colapse, high oil, etc. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
Bye Bye--General Lee
wmuflyguy
flunky
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Our management team is laughable. They are blaming this all on the pilots. Comair's management did absolutely nothing all summer, then all of a sudden they want us to "negotiate".
The managemnet is the reason for this game of brinksmanship, not the pilots. The company knew along time ago they were not going to get the full amount from the flight attendants and they dragged thier feet. They are the sole reason we are in this precarious position.
Management has refused to negotiate. If the situation was as dire as they say, wouldn't you want to get some kinda of concession? They refuse to budge off 16.3ish million. If they negotiated I'm sure they could get the union to bite on a 12-14 million dollar deal (wether it would be ratified is another story). Isn't something better than nothing? Same BS as Mesaba.
I got the resume ready and ready to apply to the other regionals and if that doesn't work out, back to college.
The managemnet is the reason for this game of brinksmanship, not the pilots. The company knew along time ago they were not going to get the full amount from the flight attendants and they dragged thier feet. They are the sole reason we are in this precarious position.
Management has refused to negotiate. If the situation was as dire as they say, wouldn't you want to get some kinda of concession? They refuse to budge off 16.3ish million. If they negotiated I'm sure they could get the union to bite on a 12-14 million dollar deal (wether it would be ratified is another story). Isn't something better than nothing? Same BS as Mesaba.
I got the resume ready and ready to apply to the other regionals and if that doesn't work out, back to college.
I don't say much on this board, just read, by I have to agree with wmuflyguy and say something. All this time, it's been flight attendants, blah, blah, blah. I may have been in la la land and perhaps should have paid more attention, but I thought the deal had been struck and we were going to stick by our first give. Well, all of a sudden LESS than a WEEK to go, it's all on the pilots again. Excuse me? That is laughable. I loved it on the conference call when one of our senior pilots brought it to their attention that when you figure seniority in we are the second lowest in the industry. They want us to be middle of the road. I can't see how we are not competitive. It is unreal. This is unreal, and I WILL NOT give any more. NOT ONE RED CENT. NO MORE. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. ZIPPO. NARY A PENNY. NOTHING. If I have anything to do about it. So when everyone else is flying Comair's and have a quick upgrade, just remember you are next, my friend.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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- Oct 12, 2003
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- 5,125
Oh and for all you Comair folks out there, I just don't trust this management team anymore. Ran into a guy who's brother coaches one of Fred Betrayal's kid in a sport . . . guess what? His family is moving to Houston. Too hard on his family? Please. Then, when Fred Betrayal didn't work, they give us Don. See, Don is supposed to be a home grown type of guy that has been with company forever. We know him. We trust him. He's trying to do what's best. You can trust Don!!! I mean he's been here forever, right? Give me a break with that one.
Oh yea, not one red cent. OK, I am done for now.
Oh, maybe not.
And for all you first year guys out there who are scared to death that they are going to get furloughed, don't worry, if this sh***&&%^&* hits the fan, I'm going to quit and work at Home Depot. MAYBE WalMart if I can get a better schedule. So, I figure I'm doing my part to keep one of the UE line. So, whoever you are, you can thank me now and hate me later.
Oh yea, not one red cent. OK, I am done for now.
Oh, maybe not.
And for all you first year guys out there who are scared to death that they are going to get furloughed, don't worry, if this sh***&&%^&* hits the fan, I'm going to quit and work at Home Depot. MAYBE WalMart if I can get a better schedule. So, I figure I'm doing my part to keep one of the UE line. So, whoever you are, you can thank me now and hate me later.
DrewBlows
Go Tigers!
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- Jun 25, 2003
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- 2,031
The company has stopped negotiating. I'm happy that they have scheduled more dates, but I have doubts that they will be able to get a deal. The reality is that we are negotiating with Delta, and if they don't want to move, we won't get a deal. Delta is the only entity that can control Comair's future.
I find it laughable that Don Bornhorst would say "you should all ask ALPA what their plans are for your career" (paraphrasing). I don't know about other's experience, but I interviewed with Comair (not ALPA), I work for Comair, and Comair pays me. I haven't seen a memo that states that this situation has changed, and I doubt that Comair is going to hand operational control to ALPA anytime soon. ALPA's role is to negotiate contract and represent our interest in quality of life issues. ALPA doesn't decide how many airplanes Comair will operate or how many will be furloughed if airplanes go away. Delta makes those decisions, and at the end of the day if Delta decides they don't want Comair to exist as we all know it, they can make that decision. I think it sucks, but there's not a lot I can do about it, is there?
I think that the company has agreed to the additional negotiations on the off chance that ALPA will cave (because of the October 2 deadline), but I seriously doubt that they have decided to negotiate. They haven't up to this point, so why should they now?
On another note, I think that October 2 is a non-existant (or at least self-imposed) deadline. Delta is set to come out bankruptcy early next year and has already started reporting profits. They want to take advantage of the bankruptcy process while they still can, and have to get DCI deals before they exit bankruptcy. This doesn't mean that I don't believe that Delta will follow through with the RFP, but I don't think that they will award flying to say, Skywest, if Comair brings their costs in line in the next month or two.
I find it laughable that Don Bornhorst would say "you should all ask ALPA what their plans are for your career" (paraphrasing). I don't know about other's experience, but I interviewed with Comair (not ALPA), I work for Comair, and Comair pays me. I haven't seen a memo that states that this situation has changed, and I doubt that Comair is going to hand operational control to ALPA anytime soon. ALPA's role is to negotiate contract and represent our interest in quality of life issues. ALPA doesn't decide how many airplanes Comair will operate or how many will be furloughed if airplanes go away. Delta makes those decisions, and at the end of the day if Delta decides they don't want Comair to exist as we all know it, they can make that decision. I think it sucks, but there's not a lot I can do about it, is there?
I think that the company has agreed to the additional negotiations on the off chance that ALPA will cave (because of the October 2 deadline), but I seriously doubt that they have decided to negotiate. They haven't up to this point, so why should they now?
On another note, I think that October 2 is a non-existant (or at least self-imposed) deadline. Delta is set to come out bankruptcy early next year and has already started reporting profits. They want to take advantage of the bankruptcy process while they still can, and have to get DCI deals before they exit bankruptcy. This doesn't mean that I don't believe that Delta will follow through with the RFP, but I don't think that they will award flying to say, Skywest, if Comair brings their costs in line in the next month or two.
Richard Gozinya
Vikings Fan
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- Feb 10, 2006
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- 478
Drew,
OK, bring their costs in line with who and where is that line. This sounds just like all the management types at ASA. There is some fictional, non definable, cost inline, down around $20/hr that we have to meet to be competetive.
Dick
JonnyKnoxville
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- May 20, 2004
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- 439
"We have proposed $14 million, and that amounts to a great deal for the pilots," Lawson said.
I love how Delta is threatining to shrink / liquidate us over a $3.3 million dollar disagreement. What a bunch of s**t. I still think they have to hit a specified sum of money through cuts to sell us on a preexisting deal.
I ask a Delta VP: Kollshack (sp?) about Delta's interest in holding on to Comair when I attended a post bankruptcy announcement company meeting with about 350 employees present. He said that selling us for exit financing from bankruptcy would be their future intention. I think management has already done this but just needs the cuts to make the deal go through. Game On!
I love how Delta is threatining to shrink / liquidate us over a $3.3 million dollar disagreement. What a bunch of s**t. I still think they have to hit a specified sum of money through cuts to sell us on a preexisting deal.
I ask a Delta VP: Kollshack (sp?) about Delta's interest in holding on to Comair when I attended a post bankruptcy announcement company meeting with about 350 employees present. He said that selling us for exit financing from bankruptcy would be their future intention. I think management has already done this but just needs the cuts to make the deal go through. Game On!
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