Its all up to Comair now!

[bvt1151]

ALPA has NOT proposed $14 million. They've proposed 9, and want credit for the other 5 from the pay freeze two years ago.

 

[goodpilotithink]

This is what everyone shoud be discussing now! Next weeks deadline for Comairs negotiations on paycuts......or not! Do they hold the line, or do they cave and we all follow them in the race to the bottom? This my friends may set a precedent for all of us!!!!!

You obviously don't follow the industry.

WE RAISED THE BAR BY STRIKING FOR 89 DAYS. THEN MESA, CHATACO, AND SKYWHORE PILOTS STABBED US IN THE BACK AND PUT US IN THE SITUATION WE ARE IN.
WHAT AN IDIOT YOU ARE TO SAY SUCH A THING.
TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS.

 

[thebest]

Give me an actual example in HISTORY that shows such a colapse, thanks to a 9-11 event, economy colapse, high oil, etc. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Your PAYCHECK! THEBEST

 

[thebest]

Your PAYCHECK! THEBEST

It's one example....Your post wasn't all that clear..........THEBEST

 

[wms]

Quote, "Then, when Fred Betrayal didn't work, they give us Don." The biggest irony of it all is that Phred fell victim to his own portfolio by starting a race to the bottom within DCI that he couldn't finish. Poor guy!

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

You obviously don't follow the industry.

WE RAISED THE BAR BY STRIKING FOR 89 DAYS. THEN MESA, CHATACO, AND SKYWHORE PILOTS STABBED US IN THE BACK AND PUT US IN THE SITUATION WE ARE IN.
WHAT AN IDIOT YOU ARE TO SAY SUCH A THING.
TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS.

Good pilot, not so sure, insecure one, more like it for calling me an idot! Im well aware of your strike back then and I am keenly aware of this industries history. Im simply stating the facts and trying to bring up a discusion.Also I was hoping to find out what the state of mind is with you guys right now! Hopefully, not as thin skinned as you!

 

[bvt1151]

Jack,

The vast majority of pilots here agree, including myself. We've been stabbed in the back, repeatedly, and have suffered greatly because of it.

 

[goodpilotithink]

Jack,

The vast majority of pilots here agree, including myself. We've been stabbed in the back, repeatedly, and have suffered greatly because of it.

Thank you.

 

[Mongolikecandy]

ALPA's role is to negotiate contract and represent our interest in quality of life issues.

This is a big misconception... It is your MEC's job to negotiate your contract, not ALPA's... ALPA provides resources and signs off on the deal but in the end, it is up to your pilots to negotiate a fair deal.

 

[bvt1151]

The MEC is part of ALPA. I understand your point, but its merely semantics.

 

[V-1]

The RFP deadline has put the pressure solely on Comair management to put together a competitive bid. Comair management has thus far failed to achieve the cost reductions they claim are necessary to be competitive...despite the Comair ALPA MEC proposing a $14 million concession package. It certainly seems Comair's management is not serious about meeting the RFP deadline with a competitive bid.

 

[inthewind]

Our management team is laughable. They are blaming this all on the pilots. Comair's management did absolutely nothing all summer, then all of a sudden they want us to "negotiate".

The managemnet is the reason for this game of brinksmanship, not the pilots. The company knew along time ago they were not going to get the full amount from the flight attendants and they dragged thier feet. They are the sole reason we are in this precarious position.

Management has refused to negotiate. If the situation was as dire as they say, wouldn't you want to get some kinda of concession? They refuse to budge off 16.3ish million. If they negotiated I'm sure they could get the union to bite on a 12-14 million dollar deal (wether it would be ratified is another story). Isn't something better than nothing? Same BS as Mesaba.

I got the resume ready and ready to apply to the other regionals and if that doesn't work out, back to college.

All of this is the same thing that we heard at Indy! Sorry that you guys are suffering the same crap as we did. If we could shut down Riddle and Gulfstream the whole industry would win!

 

[bvt1151]

despite the Comair ALPA MEC proposing a $14 million concession package.

ALPA is proposing $9 million...almost half of last winter's offer of $17.3.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Jack,

The vast majority of pilots here agree, including myself. We've been stabbed in the back, repeatedly, and have suffered greatly because of it.

I surely understand, and feel your pain. I believe the only way to stop this is through more correspondence and unity between our mec's and a national backing on that front unparralled to anything they've done so far.And now rather than later! Good luck to you guys!

 

[bvt1151]

I surely understand, and feel your pain. I believe the only way to stop this is through more correspondence and unity between our mec's and a national backing on that front unparralled to anything they've done so far.And now rather than later! Good luck to you guys!

I agree. Problem is, we've become extremely cautious of anything coming out of National. Haven't received much support other than a $2 million check, along with the press release for credit. Public support is one thing, but privately other things are happening.

 

[DrewBlows]

ALPA has NOT proposed $14 million. They've proposed 9, and want credit for the other 5 from the pay freeze two years ago.

This statement is ignorent at best, dishonest at worst.

ALPA and Comair are measureing thier concessions differently. The company is measuring concessions based on one month (December '05) at the contract rates at that time. ALPA is measuring concessions based on the contract as it is written in the future tense. That is, the difference between if a deal is signed verses if no deal is signed. The numbers roughly match up if you factor this in.

That said, I really don't care what the company or the union say the total concessions are worth. I have seen what the company is offering and what the union is offering. I would give what the union is offering. I wouldn't give what the company is offering (29% pay cut to second year FO).

 

[imacdog]

I think if the company really wanted a deal they would have gotten one by now. As it is, whatever is going to happen to us, will happen to us regardless of what happens at the negotiating table. I'll be glad when I finally get out of here.

 

[bvt1151]

This statement is ignorent at best, dishonest at worst.

ALPA and Comair are measureing thier concessions differently. The company is measuring concessions based on one month (December '05) at the contract rates at that time. ALPA is measuring concessions based on the contract as it is written in the future tense. That is, the difference between if a deal is signed verses if no deal is signed. The numbers roughly match up if you factor this in.

That said, I really don't care what the company or the union say the total concessions are worth. I have seen what the company is offering and what the union is offering. I would give what the union is offering. I wouldn't give what the company is offering (29% pay cut to second year FO).

Actually no. The union reduced their concession offer from the pilot agreed $17.3 million to $9 million. They then wanted "credit" for concessions taken years prior. This is not an actual "offer," just creative reasoning they're telling the pilots.

It has nothing to do with calculating into the future, and only deals with what was negotiated (and agreed to and signed) in the past (early 2005).

What is the difference between ALPA's offer nine months ago and now? $3 million? No, 8. They didn't want "credit" when they were calculating the $17.3 million then, why are they now?

Kinda makes you wonder why they'd mislead us like that.

 

[DrewBlows]

Actually no. The union reduced their concession offer from the pilot agreed $17.3 million to $9 million. They then wanted "credit" for concessions taken years prior. This is not an actual "offer," just creative reasoning they're telling the pilots.

It has nothing to do with calculating into the future, and only deals with what was negotiated (and agreed to and signed) in the past (early 2005).

What is the difference between ALPA's offer nine months ago and now? $3 million? No, 8. They didn't want "credit" when they were calculating the $17.3 million then, why are they now?

Kinda makes you wonder why they'd mislead us like that.

Again, I'm not sure if you are ignorant or dishonost. The MEC never "offered" $17.3. The company proposed a "last, best, final offer", which happened to be the same as the first offer, under the guise that Delta would run out of cash in February and have to start liquidating Comair. For some reason the MEC let the pilots vote on this proposal (this is a whole different discussion).

Here we are 10 months later, with zero concessions from the three organized labor groups, but Comair is still in business. If the company would have bargained in good faith to begin with they could have been reaping the benefits of concessions for nearly a year now, instead they got nothing. Who is misleading who?

Bvt, if your profile is correct you are an FO, which means you support the company proposal because you think it will bring growth aircraft. Based on this I'm placing you square in the "ignorant" category.

 

[bvt1151]

Drew,

You're arguing semantics, and trying to make generalizations based on something you don't know.

ALPA told its pilots it had a $14 million offer. It does not. It made a $9 million offer. This isn't opinion, it is written clearly in ALPA's first negotiation comparison email. They included $5 million in previous concessions, and then repeatedly told the pilots they were offering a full $14 million. What about that is honest?

National obviously has a strong hand in what just happened. We're in their pocket for $2 million, and were just led off a cliff for it. Sometimes it isn't just the company trying to screw you.