it wasn't me pointing at iraqi men

[ThomasR]

...... It Wasn't Me .......

It's not a specialist's or a private's job to discern between 'legal' and 'illegal' orders. The US military is NOT a democracy... or even a republic. It's a totalitarian dictatorship. When a subordinate receives an order, in any form, they have an obligation to comply, especially in times of the Bush-led(lost) war on terrorism.

I went through W.O.C.S. and part of the training is in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I also received these lessons as part of basic training which all recruites are exposed to. All officers, especially officers, know what is legal and not legal in the combat environment. All soldiers are expected to give the ultimate sacrifice in protecting U.S. interests. That includes death by friendly fire which includes possible firing squad for disobeying an order in time of war.

Firing squads are not formed at a whim. It take a military court to hand out such a punishment. A court means exposure of the facts and the people responsible are disloyal regardles of their intentions. The person who blew the whistle on all this "behind the scene" exploitation deserves a metal for following the path of justice at a time when justice was unpopular.

 

[Snakum]

Is ordering fraternity style hazing illegal?

You know d@mn well this went way beyond that. And you also know d@mn well what is, and is not, considered a lawful order. You had the same classes I did.

You're a lot of things, but I doubt stupid is one of them. So drop the act.



Minh

 

[azpilot]

Poor inocent Private Lynndie England. She was also photographed having graphic sex acts with other soldiers in front of the prisoners. Will she claim rape next? I am all for a fair trial but what a discrace all involved are to this country.

 

[SATCFI]

Poor inocent Private Lynndie England. She was also photographed having graphic sex acts with other soldiers in front of the prisoners. Will she claim rape next? I am all for a fair trial but what a discrace all involved are to this country.

Where did you hear/read that? First I've heard of that.

Also, with respect to requirement to obey only lawful orders, every service member is required to receive annual training in the Law of Armed Conflict which includes prisoners of war treatment. The world court has repeatedly held that one must resist carrying out illegal orders. See the Nuremberg trial transcripts for reinforcement.

 

[jarhead]

I saw reports of PFC England having sex with other soldiers in front of detainees on a couple of TV reports over the past few days. There are reported to be photographs of those acts, part of what was viewed in closed doors by some Senators and Representatives. If true, this young lady (?) is a real role model for other soldiers. We will have to wait for the rest of the photos, but I doubt graphic photos of our soldiers fornicating will be broadcast on CNN, let alone the evening news with Tom Brokaw. Her court martial will no doubt have testomony with respect to that (conduct unbecoming)

 

[Snakum]

I did read somewhere that there were vids of her with her boyfriend (a US Army Sergent in the same unit), but not with multiple partners, nor in front of Iraqis.

My question is how the stoopid little c@nt let pics like that get out. That's just ignorant. If I was tapping that fuggly little basketball-headed bimbo I sure as h@ll wouldn't let the pictures out of my possession. If I were thousands of miles away in the desert, and my only other option was a camel ... I'd hit it. But I'd deny the h@ll out of it when I got back in the world.

Jeesh ... the US Army is really cleaning out the trailer parks lately.

Minh

 

[KigAir]

I saw reports of PFC England having sex with other soldiers in front of detainees on a couple of TV reports over the past few days. There are reported to be photographs of those acts, part of what was viewed in closed doors by some Senators and Representatives. If true, this young lady (?) is a real role model for other soldiers. We will have to wait for the rest of the photos, but I doubt graphic photos of our soldiers fornicating will be broadcast on CNN, let alone the evening news with Tom Brokaw. Her court martial will no doubt have testomony with respect to that (conduct unbecoming)

Weren't there pictures of Jessica Lynch posing nude while she was in the Army?

 

[jarhead]

One thing I am thankful about, is that this PFC England did not join the army as a career professional soldier. She joined the reserves (or guard) whichever it was, to be a weekend warrior, and to try to get some money for college, according to her own statements. I sincerely doubt that when she joined, that she ever thought her unit would be called up or activated. She appears not to be able to think that far ahead. Makes me wonder what college she could pass the admissions test for entrance.

 

[chawbein]

From the Post.

Linky

Like I stated in another thread. I will wait until the investigation is complete before I make a judgement about what happened, and yes I did read the report. There is more going on here, and I would just assume wait until ALL the facts are in.

Here's the report from Gen. Taguba.

 

[Tim47SIP]

ATL FA

You've obviously never served in the military.

So I guess you were in the mil. What branch of service and where did you serve. Just want to know where you got your superior experience from.

 

[Checks]

Hey at least she didnt take innocent civilians, burn them and hang them by a bridge.

At least she didnt take an innocent civilian and cut his head off and then post the video on her website.

Those Iraqi "victims" she "embarrassed" were the same people out killing my military friends in Iraq.

Talk about out of whack feelings in this country. She was a PFC in the Army reserves. I say again, a freakin PFC. She didnt kill anyone, so give it a rest. The investigation was underway back in Jan. There are a lot worst things going on in the world, especially the Arab world.

Jimney Crickets!

 

[Tim47SIP]

Checks

It is all the liberals have. So they are going to hang on to this one as long as they can drag it out. Not much news out there on the beheading, but we are still highly focused an prisoner abuse. Go figure!

 

[jarhead]

Checks

"At least she didn't......."
"At least............ad infinitem.

What's all this "at least" stuff?

I didn't realize it was a contest to see who has the worst s.o.b's

And Tim, where have you had your head buried? No news about Mr. Bergs decapitaion? Wow, you must be watching the Home Shopping Network. You are very selective in the way you mangae your "spin". That's all I seem to see on the news is the story on Mr. Berg, and the video, and now how the family says the administration is to blame for their son's beheading. No news about it though, Right?

It's ALL bad, from ALL sides. "At least" please recognize that.
Your own head of the DoD, Mr.Rumsfeld, has said the abusive things done in Abu Ghriab were awful, and it rightfully repulsed all Americans. Or, do you think Rumsfeld just "said those things" to get GWB re-elected? You know, like you accuse all those awful "libruls" of doing? Just curious as to how you find the ways to spin that since they do bad stuff, any and everything our people do is "good stuff".

 

[jarhead]

This headline from the Minneapolis StarTribune today.

Guess all these "detainee's" must have been found to have been locked up for "crimes" that did not merit holding them. But, it's ok that they were set upon by dogs and "truth squads" Three hundered a so each week getting out for a while now. I wonder how many who were not terrorists, will now join their ranks?

Article headline:

American troops release 300 from Abu Ghraib prison

Nearly 300 Iraqi detainees, some weeping and waving to friends, were released from the Abu Ghraib prison today, a day after Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld made a surprise visit and insisted the Pentagon did not try to cover up abuses there.

 

[Typhoon1244]

My two cents: firing Donald Rumsfeld for what Lynndie England (et al) did would be like firing Marion Blakey because some airline pilot got drunk and made a scene at a hotel.

(For those of you who don't know, Ms. Blakely is the current FAA Administrator.)

I don't get the sense there was some sort of conspiracy here. I think it was a case of a few soldiers who decided "Hey, they're not human beings, they're rag-heads. Let's go f--k with them some more." I do suspect that the interrogators these soldiers came in contact with may have fueled that sort of thinking.

But fire Rumsfeld? Nah, I don't see how that will solve anything.

(On the other hand, whatever gets rid of W is fine with me...)

 

[jarhead]

Typhoon1244

I think I'm in agreement with you on this. I believe Rumsfeld is a good and decent man, and has a sharp mind. I do think there were some failures in planning earlier, that makes a bad situation worse, and part of that accountability does belong to Rumsfeld. But, in fairness, he has to march to the orders of his boss, GWB. And that boss of his is the one who got us into this "QUAGMIRE".

No, Rummy' is not responsible for the actual abuse at the prison, but as usually happens in politics, if he does resign, it's because he falls on his own sword to keep the boss from taking the hit, the guy that sets the 'tone' for it all.

 

[Checks]

Dear Mr. Jarhead,

I have this feeling you were in the Naval JROTC in high school back in '78 and have been telling people the last 10yrs you were a Marine in Vietnam.

How close am I?

You dont sound like any Marine I have ever meet!

 

[ATL2CDG]

You dont sound like any Marine I have ever meet!

I absolutely love it! If you're not a war-mongering, kill-happy bigot, it's impossible to have been a Marine!

All forbid that we should have people that have served their country AND have a desire for peace and rule of law...

 

[jarhead]

Mr. Checks
Look at my detailed profile. Use the icon at the bottom if you have never used it. You will see that my date of birth is July of 1940. I will be 64 this coming July. I was never in NROTC ever, anywhere. I was enlisted in the Marine Corps in November of 1958. Left at a Rank of E-4. In 1978, the year you suggest I was in ROTC, I was 38 years old, Married, house in the burbs, and a 7 year old son.

The 7 year old son then, is now 32, and a captain at Comair for the last 7 years.

Sorry your detective work was so far off the mark. Wanna ask me some quiz questions?

I am so very puzzled why so many on these boards question who I am, simply based on their disagreement with my political views. There are more Marines than just me, who question the current leadership in our country. But, if it makes you feel better to support your own view, by attacking the character of someone who has a different message than yourself, rather than attack the message, I guess I cannot help you out of that blind spot.

By the way, I see your birthday is tomorrow. You are one year older than my son. Happy birthday!

 

[Checks]

Dear Mr. JarHead,

My previous post was uncalled for and out of line.

I just feel this whole prisoner abuse scandal, notice I didnt say atrocity, is being taken out of context. People are brutally killing innocent civilians delivering water yet all I hear, and see, are stories of naked prisoners. No one killed, no one mutilated, and an investigation already started 5 months ago. Just makes you wonder why it is such a huge news story.

I need to get back to Earning Money Sleeping.