Is this schedule crazy?

[bgaviator]

I currently show up for my shift at 4 am and get off at 2. On this current schedule I am barely getting 6 hours of sleep a night. By day 4 I'm ready to drop. When you're married, and your wife doesn't get him until 6:30pm...by the time you eat dinner...getting to bed to make 8 hours of sleep is almost impossible. Now I just found out that they want us to start coming in at 3 am!!!! I seriously have no idea how I'm going to do it....I guess sleeping pills and Tim Hortons will become my friend. Can dispatchers call fatigue?

 

[propsarebest]

Yes and no...

You get more than 2 days off, correct?

 

[onewithwings]

Can dispatchers call fatigue?

Unless it's addressed in your collective bargaining agreement, it's highly unlikely!

(BTW welcome to the dispatch world, consider yourself lucky you aren't required to work a graveyard shift! )

Hint:Wear earplugs, they work wonders!

 

[bgaviator]

yes, we work a 4 on, 3 off. I just don't see how anyone in their right mind can be expected to try to be to bed by 8 pm just to get 6 hours of sleep. The real pisser is that we have enough dispatchers to have 3 shifts, 24 hour coverage....but it would leave us with no vacation relief except for the managers....and of course they don't want to have to work extra to cover people's vacations....so they just keep trying to stretch 2 shifts into covering as much of a 24 hour period as they can.

 

[dispatchguy]

24hr coverage - if youre at a regional, welcome to the world of inadequate staffing. Airlines who staff to an 8hr shift, at least what I hear about on WDFF, are becoming a rarity.

Once, at a regional a while back, we were poorly staffed with only 5 dispatchers, me and the rest (including the dispatch manager)

I am AM shift, PM calls sick (single manning), I call my SOC director, and he (pilot for us), tells me to start calling around.

Guy 1 - having a party, started drinking already (at 1100am)

Guy 2 - In florida

Guy 3 - In Pennsylvania (were in the midwest)

Guy 4 - The one that called off

I ended up working a 20 hour day! No, I didnt pitch a bitch about a 10hr max violation, for I did see it as an emergency situation, and the shortage was not foreseeable; it wasnt like the PM shift was uncovered and I got juniored for it; for if that had happened, I probably wouldve told them to go pound sand. Thankfully the weather in the entire system was hard VFR, and the airplanes were all cooperating, ATC was playing nice, the crews werent calling in sick (plus, it did make me look like a savior to the front office shmoes)

I did tell our SOC manager that if it had been a typical day, that he wouldve had to have come in and start to help me draw the system down and position the overnites for tomorrow, for I wouldve quickly become fatigued.

The one nice thing about 10 hr shifts, is that it does provide the ability to have a 4-3 schedule, assuming that you have a 2080 hour work year.

Just remember, they can work you 52 or so days straight, and thats completely legal. 4 days off at the beginning of month one, and 4 days off at the end of month two; and as long as they dont schedule you to bust a 10 in 24, and give u 8 hrs of rest between duty periods, thats completely legal. Is that safe (but imagine that overtime

I hate quickturns as well; and yes, I am always shot afterwards.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Welcome to dispatching, buddy.

I bid 4am-2p shifts...but I rarely work at 4a. This week, I've worked a 2am, a two 3am's, and a 4am today. I jump back and forth all the time (with start times varying at 2a, 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a, 8a, 10a...and even the occasional afternoon) and usually put in 6 days in a row if I have no other plans. I haven't been to bed before 10pm each night. And, believe it or not, I have a life outside of work. Time for you to learn the greatness of the 30-60 minute afternoon power-nap.

If I remember correctly from before you found a dispatching job, I think you were adequately warned.

 

[XPOO]

Walter...

I was thinking the same thing. You sleep from 3pm-6pm and then wake up and watch all your sports game and have a beer or two and eat. By 9 or 10, you're ready for bed again. This way you at least get a 7-8 hours of sleep a day. Just not all at one time. Soon it will become part of your regular routine.

 

[dispatchguy]

As a licensed airman, you are responsible to manage your own rest schedule in order to be rested for your duty schedule.

If that means you miss quality bonding time with the missus, well then, you miss it if you need that bonding time to rest for your scheduled shift.

What your definition of "well rested" is up to you.

All that the air carrier is responsible for is to schedule you in accordance with FAR, nothing less, and nothing more (unless you're in a union shop).

6 hours of sleep a nite, damn; I'm 40 and that is my standard sleep time, the older you get the less sleep you require (one of life's more dastardly lessons).

 

[propsarebest]

I work 12 hour shifts, 5a-5p. We work 4 on and 4 off. There are 8 in our office, and 2 are out on vacation. sooo, that means that we get to pick up the slack, which means that one person is currently working 16 days in a row.

Ohh yea, I work for a supp. carrier, so all those cushy FARS about not working over 8 hours and over 6 days don't apply.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[dispatchguy]

I work 12 hour shifts, 5a-5p. We work 4 on and 4 off. There are 8 in our office, and 2 are out on vacation. sooo, that means that we get to pick up the slack, which means that one person is currently working 16 days in a row.

Ohh yea, I work for a supp. carrier, so all those cushy FARS about not working over 8 hours and over 6 days don't apply.

Welcome to the real world.

We can work up to 10 hours, and over 6 days, the reg continues on and says "or the equivalent thereof in a calendar month"

You must be thinking pilots, which would be nice.

 

[bcp7]

Dispatch guy, you're correct for Par 121.465 for Domestic or Flag dispatchers, but there are no duty time limitations for Flight Followers under Part 121 Supplemental rules.

 

[bcp7]

I currently show up for my shift at 4 am and get off at 2. On this current schedule I am barely getting 6 hours of sleep a night. By day 4 I'm ready to drop. When you're married, and your wife doesn't get him until 6:30pm...

Get a nap in between the time you get home from work, and the time your wife gets home. Depending on your commute to and from work, you should be able to get a couple of hours sleep.

 

[hoover]

Yes, your schedule is crazy. It's exactly the same schedule I had at Air Wisconsin, which is why I left. (the airline and the profession). The problem is that management refuses to acknowledge human factors in aviation. The hours between 2 and 3AM, in the circadium rythym are when people are typically in their deepest and most restful sleep, were the hours I spent waking up and getting ready for work. I was dead-tired exhausted for a solid year. Unfortunately, for better or worse, this is what the job is. With seniority things get a little better, but not much. Make your decision.

 

[hoover]

I ended up working a 20 hour day! No, I didnt pitch a bitch about a 10hr max violation, for I did see it as an emergency situation, and the shortage was not foreseeable; it wasnt like the PM shift was uncovered and I got juniored for it; for if that had happened, I probably wouldve told them to go pound sand. Thankfully the weather in the entire system was hard VFR, and the airplanes were all cooperating, ATC was playing nice, the crews werent calling in sick (plus, it did make me look like a savior to the front office shmoes)

The situation you describe was not an emergency. An emergency is where you are at or over your 10 hour limit, and you still have planes in the air (say, due to ATC holds and reroutes while enroute). Every airplane has to land, but not a single one HAS to take off. FARs say an airplane cannot take off if that crew is not legal to finish the fight (Whitlow interpretation I believe). I see no reason why that should be any different for dispatchers. If that airplane cannot be on the ground by the end of your 10 hour shift, then it cannot be released.

 

[alpine1989]

The situation you describe was not an emergency. An emergency is where you are at or over your 10 hour limit, and you still have planes in the air (say, due to ATC holds and reroutes while enroute). Every airplane has to land, but not a single one HAS to take off. FARs say an airplane cannot take off if that crew is not legal to finish the fight (Whitlow interpretation I believe). I see no reason why that should be any different for dispatchers. If that airplane cannot be on the ground by the end of your 10 hour shift, then it cannot be released.

The reg states that a Dispatcher can not be Scheduled over 10 hours. We routinely work 8+8 hour double shifts. The FAA dances around this one and has never ruled that extending beyond 10 hours for a sick call busts the reg.

 

[SKC]

An emergency is where you are at or over your 10 hour limit, and you still have planes in the air (say, due to ATC holds and reroutes while enroute).

Surely you're not serious. [I am serious and don't call me Shirley. sorry just had to]

An emergency is where you are AT your 10 hr limit? How many dispatch initiated emergencies have you declared when that 10th hour struck? I'm sure your company loves you.

 

[bcp7]

The reg states that a Dispatcher can not be Scheduled over 10 hours. We routinely work 8+8 hour double shifts. The FAA dances around this one and has never ruled that extending beyond 10 hours for a sick call busts the reg.

Where do you work?

I would say your carrier has poor management in the Dispatch area, resulting in insufficient staffing and poor scheduling.

In 9 years as a Part 121 Dispatcher under Domestic or Flag Rules, I have never had to work a shift in longer than ten hours. I have worked an 8 hour shift, taken 8 hours rest and worked another 8 hour shift. It is a question of management and manpower. None of these airlines had more than 10 dispatchers working the desk.

 

[dispatchguy]

Well - I have heard of dispatchers doing doubles like that in an 8+8 fashion.

Work the first 8 hours as a dispatcher cranking releases and working a desk.
Work the 2nd 8 hours as an ATC coordinator (their internal requirements for the position requires the ADX certificate, however, since they arent "exercising their certificate" the el Federale says thats ok.

And this is a union shop that this happens in; happens all the time.

 

[dispatchguy]

I have worked an 8 hour shift, taken 8 hours rest and worked another 8 hour shift.

Nothing I hate more than a quickturn. I know its legal, but I feel as alive as a cadaver that 2nd shift, and my body clock feels like its been hit with a truck. I actually feel just like a warm body on the desk - hopefully is VFR systemwide...

Now with my multiple sclerosis, I wonder how a quick turn would go now; hopefully I wont have to find out...

 

[Starbuck]

Are you working for ASA ? if so no problem most OCS operate on that schedule.