Is this part 91??

[BD King]

I guess I would have to ask, is the airplane for hire? I think this is what AvBug was driving at. No compensation for the airplane, no 135.

www.bdkingpress.com

 

[UGAflyer]

These group of docs wanna buy a light twin and hire me to fly it for them to wherever there hearts desire. For some reason their lawyer said that this is a part 135 op but I have met with an aviation attorney who says as long as they are an NBAA member, meet inspections in accordance with the manufacturer and fill out some FSDO paperwork its a Part 91 op. I smell 91 all over it but what would make an attorney think 135? Anyone? Bueller?

Is the FSDO paperwork you speak of related to the people on the lease or related to the leasing of the airplane? I have heard something about this but don't know the details...maybe some others have heard of this and could chime in.

 

[RichardRambone]

All I know is these docs wanna buy a 310, all of whom don't have a pilots license, fly it outta Bloomington, IN which has no commercial service, to places with hub airports like Chicago and such so they can catch a commercial flight outta there. Ill fly it wherever the hell they want me to but there will be no for hire business outside of flying the docs where they want me to. All within about a 2.5 hour flight of base. I will be paid to do this. Thats it. End of story. I can't even pick up a hint of 135 but your advice is appreciated.

 

[gern_blanston]

91. As long as you're sure they know that they can't let one of their golfing buddies go on a trip for a case of wine or a hundred bucks or something. No contact with the FSDO should be required.

 

[avbug]

Once more, if the doctors own the airplane and employ you to fly it, you're acting as a corporate pilot. If the doctors don't carry other passengers or cargo to a point other than the point of departure for revenue or compensation, and exercise operational control of the aircraft, and you merely fly them at their request, you can take them where ever they want to go as a commercial pilot.

NBAA, airlines, FSDO...all irrelevant and only serve to cloud the issue and the question. You don't need the permission of the FSDO to act under your commercial pilot certificate. The doctors don't need the permission of the FSDO to own an airplane. The FSDO doesn't have the authority to grand or deny those privileges, except in issuance of your original certificate, or enforcement action against the same.

Again, perhaps a more important issue is weather you should undertake this task when the attorney for your future employer (the doctors) tells you it can't be done. When the attorney for doctors tells me something, regardless of weather it's right or wrong, I have to consider the weight of the money and the capability to act. A little like a pedestrian insisting on the right of way over a semi truck. Not necessarily a wise idea...until their own attorney is in your corner, proceeding against his counsel might be the most foolish thing you could possibly do aside from making love to a porcupine.

 

[Headwind]

NBAA? Read FAR 91-501. You must be a jet or have gross over 12,500 to qualify unless you are an NBAA member. Light twins, even King Air B-200 don't qualify. If the Doctor's want to operate this as a fractional operation in a light twin then they must be NBAA members.
NBAA has a waver for their members. If several Doctors own the aircraft and are billed for the use of the aircraft it sounds like this is the best way to go.
Sounds like the lawyer has done this before. I have. If I were you I would listen to the lawyer and talk with someone at NBAA and then go to FSDO with a plan.

HEADWIND

 

[The Natural]

Why does everyone want to bring the FSDO into this?

I got an idea, call 911 and tell them about the next time you think you smell marijuana in your living room.
Ask them nicely not to look under the couch because thats where you have your
unregistered gun which is next to the your gambling earnings that you failed
to claim, and to overlook the the dead hooker.

Fly for the owners, maybe friends & family that they will not charge AT ALL. Explain to them part 135 and the consequences. done.

 

[Lead Sled]

NBAA? Read FAR 91-501. You must be a jet or have gross over 12,500 to qualify unless you are an NBAA member. Light twins, even King Air B-200 don't qualify. If the Doctor's want to operate this as a fractional operation in a light twin then they must be NBAA members.
NBAA has a waver for their members. If several Doctors own the aircraft and are billed for the use of the aircraft it sounds like this is the best way to go.
Sounds like the lawyer has done this before. I have. If I were you I would listen to the lawyer and talk with someone at NBAA and then go to FSDO with a plan.

I seem to remember that the fractional regs didn't "kick in" unless you were operating some minimum number of aircraft. If that's true then what you said wouldn't necessarily apply. Additionally, on the surface, it appears as though they would only qualify as associate NBAA members.

'Sled

 

[Headwind]

Associate member? Why? If the doctors form an LLC to own and operate the aircraft they can join NBAA as a business member and operate under 91-501 with the NBAA waiver. Under 91-501 the LLC can bill each owner for his trips. No one can use the aircraft other than the owners. The LLC will give asset protection to the members from damage the others members may cause. The LLC does not "hold out" and is not in business for any reason other than to operate this aircraft for it's owners.
All the NBAA waiver does is allow a member with a light twin to take advantage of FAR 91-501, which the FAA designed for operators of jets.
You may not need to contact the FSDO. If a leese is used the leese must be approved by your FSDO, but the LLC should have an "operating agreement" for owners and no leese needed. The operating agreement spells out who manages the LLC, who are the owners, and who has operational control.

HEADWIND