Is the Southwest pay/contract sustainable at current market?

[freightdogfred]

. And DL made more in profit in one quarter than you have in two years.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Gloating in the airline biz is not a wise idea. DL has lost more in a quarter than SW has made in 2 years as well. Enjoy your success, but boasting is unwise.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Riiiiiighht........

Hey, I'm just backing up the OP's point. He says 'everyone calls in sick' too.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Huh? Back to the BK trough? Oh come on. The debt is being brought down by $2 billion PER YEAR, and it will have gone from $18 Billion to $10 billion within 4 years.

The problem with you guys is the LCC model. To sustain it, you need lower costs, and because of longevity, you have more people at top scale then you ever had before. Unless you grow A LOT, or produce a heck of a lot more revenue, you won't be able to sustain the same profit margin that you USED to have. You grew a little with AT, but you are shelving half of their planes, and keeping all of their employees, who were cheaper, but will be just as expensive as your own soon. You had TV commercials stating "Oh, SWA would NEVER do that...." when it came to charging for bags, yet you still charge for bags on the AT side. You have old computer systems at SWA that can't handle INTL flights. You have old clunky 737-300s that will stick around longer as you push 737-800 deliveries back. You have some big problems with disgruntled AT pilots. You don't have hedges anymore, so you can't really turn down fare increases (heck, you start a lot of them, to the chagrin of all the legacies), and it almost seems like you guys lack a plan. You have maxed out the 48 contiguous States, and are trying to look for more, but your ETOPS program to Hawaii is on hold, and you are looking at AT to help you start Mexico flying and Caribbean, even though you did throw SWA planes on some SJU flights. It's a mess, and it's not the same SWA in the past. And DL made more in profit in one quarter than you have in two years.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You know, I was wondering when the General was going to come along and tell us all exactly how the world (and Southwest) really works. Thanks for not keeping me waiting TOO long, General--I appreciate your help in getting me to see that all Southwest has done for 40-odd years is build one big house of cards that will fail at any second. Should I put my application in with Delta now, General? Or should I wait until Delta buys our miserable excuse for an airline? If I wait until then, I assume that you will insist on relative seniority and that I keep my Captain seat... Right? That way I can fly around all over the world with you as my FO, enjoying 90-hour layovers in fabulous European cities! Don't worry--I'll buy all the beer from all the Southwest money I've saved up. I can hardly wait...

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

You know, I was wondering when the General was going to come along and tell us all exactly how the world (and Southwest) really works. Thanks for not keeping me waiting TOO long, General--I appreciate your help in getting me to see that all Southwest has done for 40-odd years is build one big house of cards that will fail at any second. Should I put my application in with Delta now, General? Or should I wait until Delta buys our miserable excuse for an airline? If I wait until then, I assume that you will insist on relative seniority and that I keep my Captain seat... Right? That way I can fly around all over the world with you as my FO, enjoying 90-hour layovers in fabulous European cities! Don't worry--I'll buy all the beer from all the Southwest money I've saved up. I can hardly wait...

Bubba

If you want upward movement, yes, throw your app into DL. You won't get it at SWA for years, primarily because of the way you are set up. One fleet type (after 717s leave) means when one guy retires, one moves up, and one gets hired. That's it. If you have 150 leave in one year, then 150 move up and 150 are hired. If you are 1000 or 2000 from that upgrade, you have years and years to go, 5 legs a day at a time. At a legacy, one guy retires, 8 move up, then one is hired. Sure, that is expensive, but big profits help pay for that.


As for your so called "house of cards" as you called it, I disagree, but your airline is certainly not as stable as it was after 9-11. No more hedges, higher costs including fuel and longevity costs with more senior employees, and merger costs from a merger that hasn't gone as well as planned so far. Your airline isn't going to crumble, but it's not as solid as you think. It's going to be a different competition coming up here between the airlines because you aren't the low cost leader anymore with great fuel hedges. Even GK has seemed to figure this out.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Gloating in the airline biz is not a wise idea. DL has lost more in a quarter than SW has made in 2 years as well. Enjoy your success, but boasting is unwise.

Boasting? Stating fact. Scoreboard II saying DL will be going back to the BK trough had to have a truthful response. DL has responded well to the threats of chronic high gas, and a down economy, here and in Europe. Think what could happen if those things change for the better? Good stuff, for all airlines, but great for legacies.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pilotyip]

sounds a lot like "My dad can beat up your dad"

 

[jonjuan]

sounds a lot like "My dad can beat up your dad"

My Mom can beat up your dad.

 

[BR715]

The general is right SWA has some serious issues to solve. The place is run like a 135 ops carrier. Can't wait to cross the partition and go back to 1975!

 

[Lear70]

The general is right SWA has some serious issues to solve. The place is run like a 135 ops carrier. Can't wait to cross the partition and go back to 1975!

You'll get your chance soon, next bid opens in 3 days.

 

[BMW]

All will be solved when SWA starts charging for bags. Bags fly free is on its way out the door.