Is the Southwest pay/contract sustainable at current market?

[JT12345]

Well I hear some of the Southwest pilots are making what I might call stupid money over there, and it scares me a little. Hearing 10 hours of sick a month, so everyone calls in sick to drop trips into open time for others to pick up at 150% or 200%. Capts making 360k to 400k and FOs 180k to 200k. Scamming the system or at least that is probably how management sees it. They signed off on this too.

So do you think the current market dictates this?

Is this the average? The way I see it making 30% more than you piers is not sustainable long term in this business and tends to lead to tragedy. I think the average is FO 150k and CA 300k.

So are these numbers justified in the current market?

How are negotiations going and in what direction? Increase? Flat? Givebacks?

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Delta is twice as big as SWA, but made 4x more in 3rd quarter at 400+ million vs. 100+ not including the 500 million Delta made on fuel hedging.

Does this worry any of the RSW cause it is worrying this FAT?

 

[scoreboardII]

Delta making four times more does not scare me, they'll be back to the bankruptcy trough soon enough.

Your 10 hours a month sick time comment makes no sense. It has been said some do drop a trip via sick call to become legal and they are a problem, that number is well into the .1% range of pilots.

There are captains and FO's who can game the system and on the occasion make what you quote, those that can do that number in the sub 1%. This is by no means the average, thats down around 100TFP, which is what 99% make. No one makes 200% every month,which by the way takes 25-28 days on the road a month.

The highest month to month average is about 110-125TFP, thats working 2-4 more days a month.

Justified in the current market, what do you mean?

Negotiations are going thats all we know.

 

[Flyby1206]

As carriers continue to consolidate and get contracts similar to DAL then SWA will be able to sustain what they have.

 

[PropPiedmont]

I'm gonna break $300K this year, and I'm an FO. Think I'm on the low side of FO pay too.

 

[texman]

We are more productive. Do the math.

 

[jonjuan]

As carriers continue to consolidate and get contracts similar to DAL then SWA will be able to sustain what they have.

But Scoreboard said dal will be back in bankruptcy soon enough. I'm not sure if he thinks that's good or bad for sustaining his wage.

 

[scoreboardII]

it will be good because consolidation helps SWA.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'm gonna break $300K this year, and I'm an FO. Think I'm on the low side of FO pay too.

Riiiiiighht........

 

[General Lee]

Delta making four times more does not scare me, they'll be back to the bankruptcy trough soon enough.

Your 10 hours a month sick time comment makes no sense. It has been said some do drop a trip via sick call to become legal and they are a problem, that number is well into the .1% range of pilots.

There are captains and FO's who can game the system and on the occasion make what you quote, those that can do that number in the sub 1%. This is by no means the average, thats down around 100TFP, which is what 99% make. No one makes 200% every month,which by the way takes 25-28 days on the road a month.

The highest month to month average is about 110-125TFP, thats working 2-4 more days a month.

Justified in the current market, what do you mean?

Negotiations are going thats all we know.

Huh? Back to the BK trough? Oh come on. The debt is being brought down by $2 billion PER YEAR, and it will have gone from $18 Billion to $10 billion within 4 years.

The problem with you guys is the LCC model. To sustain it, you need lower costs, and because of longevity, you have more people at top scale then you ever had before. Unless you grow A LOT, or produce a heck of a lot more revenue, you won't be able to sustain the same profit margin that you USED to have. You grew a little with AT, but you are shelving half of their planes, and keeping all of their employees, who were cheaper, but will be just as expensive as your own soon. You had TV commercials stating "Oh, SWA would NEVER do that...." when it came to charging for bags, yet you still charge for bags on the AT side. You have old computer systems at SWA that can't handle INTL flights. You have old clunky 737-300s that will stick around longer as you push 737-800 deliveries back. You have some big problems with disgruntled AT pilots. You don't have hedges anymore, so you can't really turn down fare increases (heck, you start a lot of them, to the chagrin of all the legacies), and it almost seems like you guys lack a plan. You have maxed out the 48 contiguous States, and are trying to look for more, but your ETOPS program to Hawaii is on hold, and you are looking at AT to help you start Mexico flying and Caribbean, even though you did throw SWA planes on some SJU flights. It's a mess, and it's not the same SWA in the past. And DL made more in profit in one quarter than you have in two years.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

We are more productive. Do the math.

Will you be able to do as many trips when the 717s go away and you have an extra 500 pilots sitting around? What will happen then? I assume those guys will be trained on the 737 (free type for some! Yay!), and then there will be plenty of reserves to pick up all of those extra trips some of the guys on here pick up to make $300K as an FO...... What then?



Bye Bye---General Lee