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Is Southwest Hiring Mostly Military?

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As I said before, all I can report on are my "theories" and what I have seen in my candidates that have secured interviews.

As stated in my previous post, try for a Check Airman spot "if it is possible." If not, look for a committee on your union, whether it be a technical spot or a hotel committee. If you are in a corporate position, and your position is Chief Pilot, then you need to be detailing things like proposals you have put together for acquisition of aircraft, new procedures you have implemented, etc. If you have perfect attendance, put it down.

I have not looked at the application since it first came out, so I am not sure how much space there is for information like that. But if there is room, put down any significant contributions you have made to make your company or operation better.

When I write resumes for my pilot clients, the main thing I ask about is what they have done in addition to flying. I tell them exactly what someone else said on here, "What makes you different and standout from everyone else?"

On another note, Walden said "If everyone has a similar background it makes it tough to compare all the available applicants fairly." Perhaps I am not reading that right, but I am going to reply to this from what I perceive is being said.

There is info out there that I believe is incorrect. You are not in competition with other applicants; you are in competition with yourself. When the information goes to the hiring board, they do not compare candidate X with candidate Y. They take the recommendations and observations from everyone that participated in your interview and make a decision.

Now, the one thing I will say is if SWA only had 10 positions to fill, then there would be some comparison. But we all know that is not the case right now.

If SWA had 10 interviews in one day, and all 10 people were outstanding, they would take all of them. The reason behind this is simple; the faster they get people hired and into the pool, the more focus they can put on other matters.

Understand that recruitment is a non-revenue generating position. Management at any airline would like nothing more than to cut the costs of interviewing and hiring. They have to pay a Captain (or two) to step off the line, use reserves that take additional pilots out of the operation, and cause stress on the airline if there are irregular ops, pay someone to do the searches for candidates, call them and set up interviews; the list of costs goes on.

It would be in their best interest to hire as many candidates as possible to meet their hiring quota. It costs them nothing once you are in the pool.

Anyway, these are just the rantings of a very tired resume writer late at night! :) I may not be right on all accounts, but as I said before, I am just trying to figure out the magic formula like everyone else! :confused:

Kathy
 
"The Poolie Formerly Known As CaptainBrazilia"

Glenn, I think it is. Congrats. Care to share your stats, impressions of the interview?
Thanks.
 
6000+ TT
3000+ PIC (mostly turbo-jet)
3000+ Turbine
Flt. Instructor, A&P, Charter & Airline experience
737 Type
4 Yr. degree

There is no right answer to this question. I probably had the best interview of my career when I interviewd with SWA last June. I felt well prepared but not cocky in any way. My paperwork was in perfect order, I looked great, I answered all the questions with ease, confidence and a smile on my face. I was outgoing and joked around a little with the PD staff. I told them that I really wanted the job. I knew what most of the pitfalls might be and I feel I avoided them all and scored the knockout punch. SWA did not see it that way though, or at least did not feel that I was good enough this time through, or they thought I was good enough but I did not fit into whatever cross section of pilots they were picking that month. I do know for a fact that most of the military pilots from my group were hired and none of us civ'ys made it. I have nothing against military pilots (having wanted to be one myself but missing the oppoutunity) and I'm glad for the well deserved opportunities they get in civilian aviation, but it sure sucks being the odd man out, especially when you know that you have worked as hard or even harder (and probably spent alot more of your own money on your career) to be at that interview. A couple months after I received the infamous dear John letter one of the captains who interviewd me requested a jumpseat on one of my flights and I turned his sorry a!! down . . . . just kidding. He was one of the coolest cats I had met at the interview and I thought that my time with him was the best part of the day. He was quite surprised that I had not been accepted and expressed to me that he felt that the DB's were rejecting alot of good aplicants. I asked him specifically about becoming a check-airman/ioe captain and he said it would not make much if any difference in SWA consideration of me for a job. I remain optimistic though about my second time around hopefully sometime later this year as I continue to improve my quals. (another type, more pic and hopefully a check airman position just for the heck of it). It will take me that long to be mentally ready anyway just to process through the dissapointment and frustration of losing out on the best job in the industry the first time through. Anyway, good luck to this poster on your interview. I'm sure you'll do well, just relax and be yourself and remember all your good stories. Maybe we'll see each other on line one day.
 
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Dear resume writer,

I think you may be a little wrong about SWA hiring quickly for all their needs based on the fact that it cost them nothing to keep you in the pool. I think it does cost them some undetermined amount to keep current FBI/DMV/background checks on poolies. I don't think these checks last forever so they have to be re-done every 6 months or so, a cost that SWA I 'm sure does not want to duplicate if not absolutely necessary. Thus, they can't hire averyone they think is good all at once or else people would be sitting in the pool for too long.
 
Krusty

You are exactly right....the job of CA is one that is the backbone of any organization......some would argue (I being one of those) that the "good CAs" take on some aspects of a check airman, i.e. mentoring of FOs, maintaining & enforcing the standards set down by management, "coaching" new FOs on what is expected & doing all of these things without appearing to be doing it:) ...takes quite the talented person.

All the while these "leadership" skills are being exhibited you're flying to minimums, dealing with dispatch, handling customers with kid gloves or showing decisive leadership. What comes out in the interview are these stories or others that are told. If your CA stories illustrate those values that SWA also similarly values then at least you're in the ballpark...there are no guarantees obviously!

There are many folks who are great CAs & some "CA only have been hired at SWA, others that aren't....trying to analyze the reasons why someone isn't hired is a fool's game & while Kathy & my attempt at providing some perspective to what "may" be one characteristic to being a "good candidate", I've probably given the wrong impression that it is more important than it is.

Do I think it helps to have additional experience? Yes....is it critical to getting hired at SWA? Define critical....everything is critical when one is looking at the total package....rarely is one single thing the deciding factor...we could have this same discussion about (1) no college degree, 2 or 4 yr degree, (2) no 121 stink on you or some/alot, (3) types of LORs...folks have had this discussion when we were interviewing folks (4) without 737 types & those with.

I believe one should try to stack the deck in as many ways as you can to "enhance" one's appeal to a potential employer.......maybe my military experiences had me think that way but in my case I was one of those guys who was two grades above where I should've been with credentials much less stellar than others....no I didn't know anyone special but hiring/promoting folks like me gave hope to all the average folks out there...someone had to be on the other end of the bell curve...that was me:) !!!!

Honestly, the method of deciding of who gets the hired call is a mystery to most of us & will certainly remain so....we loose many good folks, trust me, many friends have been turned down that would be a perfect fit but either the interview, LOI or something else kept them out....doesn't change who they are or that they wouldn't be a good fit......I'll try to use a poor analogy to explain how I see it.

Most of us when chasing (I did) our spouse may not have been successful the first time....we weren't their type......no explanation (my future wife gave me plenty though) often times & we have several options....write them off & press on to the next fish in the sea, come back the next time & do a better job of selling yourself & really showing them what you're like (still doesn't guarantee success....took me multiple attempts to convince her) or make some changes because you think it is worth it to impress your future betrothed....again nothing personal (yea, right) but regardless even if it doesn't work out you are probably better for the process & know more about yourself & what you are willing to do make yourself more desireable along the way....if it gets to be too much one can always walk away.....just because they turned you down doesn't make the process sinister, unfair, or biased or the other person a "bad person"......over analyzing (with poor analogies, my apology) only raises the blood pressure & makes one loose focus about what's important even after Southwest....family friends, personal self...allowing "it" (the entire process) to alter your view about yourself, your current position, the aviation industry, Southwest or others doesn't get one any closer to achieving your aviation goals IMHO.

There are folks on here who far more insight & knowledge than I do about the process....thanks to them for their posts but sometimes (I've been guilty of it also) trying to answer too many questions only starts one down a road that simply one shouldn't be on....NONE OF US CAN DO MUCH ABOUT IT.

Pick your path, method, process for preparing....read here & other places & use your best judgement.....when in flying do we have a 100% solution....doesn't mean we stop trying I know & that a fluke in all pilots personalities ;) ...in this case no one on here has the definitive answer & there isn't one (thank goodness). Sorry for the long response but the frustration of not getting called when others are that appear to have less quals than oneself or after getting turned down after going through this process is indeed a challenge to keep one's psyche intact.

Again Krusty, thanks for your kind words....my words are usually priceless alright, worth about $.01 which is pretty "price - less"....hang in there don't give up!!!!
cheers,
 
Farscape said:
Dear resume writer,

I think you may be a little wrong about SWA hiring quickly for all their needs based on the fact that it cost them nothing to keep you in the pool. I think it does cost them some undetermined amount to keep current FBI/DMV/background checks on poolies. I don't think these checks last forever so they have to be re-done every 6 months or so, a cost that SWA I 'm sure does not want to duplicate if not absolutely necessary. Thus, they can't hire averyone they think is good all at once or else people would be sitting in the pool for too long.

Farscape,

Not really sure about that logic, as there were people that sat in the pool for two years. While I have no "specific" knowledge at this time for how long an FBI/DMV/Background check is valid for, I would suspect that "if" they have to do another one on a candidate, they would do it just prior to a person attending class to see if they are still "good to go." I would believe that the cost for that is minimal in relation to the expense that is generated through constant interviewing of candidates.

As I said before, I might be wrong. It would be interesting to know the answer to that question. Let me see if I can find a definitive answer to that question through a phone call.

Kathy
 
Farscape:


I feel your pain, bro! But do not lose the faith! You interviewed at probably the most competitive time in the company's history. I personally know several guys who did not make the cut on their first try, but came back and were hired the second time around (a couple within the last few months)....it's VERY common.

Best of luck to you.
 
There are costs to having people in the pool. The main concern is not money.

I have been told several times from the PD that they realise the chaos on peoples lives when they sit in the pool "to long." The uncertainty can be terrible. SWA will do everything in its power to:

1: interview and hire the best folks we can
2: have enough people "on deck" for any contingency
3: do this with as little "pool" time as possible

You always lose folks if the wait is too long. We really want to hire the folks we interview, so we certainly don't want to lose any after they have been selected.
 
Any unofficial age at which one becomes more of a long shot for getting the nod? Hitting 40 this year, thinking about trying to jump ship. I know they hire lots of mil retirees over 40, just not sure if they have a separate view of crusty civ guys.
 
Farscape,

Keep the faith. Thought I did OK the first time around but did not get the call. Got it the second time though. Don't give up if it is what you want. Enjoy the 170.
 
Pool costs & how old is too old?

A number that was once thrown out was that interviewing one applicant runs in the neighborhood of $1000 per person...that is a very conservative number though when one throws in costs associated with the interview itself (trip pulls for 4of 5 folks), incidental costs associated with each package/candidate, etc.

Putting these folks in the pool as mentioned has costs associated, further 3rd party background checks & the "pee" tests for those selected by the DB add additional costs to those folks selected for further screening & generally are hired here at SWA. That is why the $1000 figure is generally assumed to be rather low.

Re-newing the background check does cost money & when it was determined back in '02&'03 that having a large pool of folks (200) only resulted in background checks needing to be re-done again, further evidence became clear that having large number of folks waiting in the pool isn't necessary in most situation. That backlog would've never happened if 911 wouldn't have happened....things are different now (hopefully forever!) & folks are moving into the pool & out well within the 6 month window which makes everything run smoothly. The only folks who are in the pool longer than 6 months are those folks who are fulfilling military obligations & can't separate/retire sooner I would think. I don't believe (again I've been wrong) that SWA is striving for a large pool of folks....they're selected from a great group of folks very strong candidates.

As for age...40 is definitely not too old....upper age ranges for new hires is usually late 40's & routinely folks who have turned 50 or slightly older....for the record SWA has hired folks at 56 years of age even though that was sometime ago.......if you believe that Age 60 will be repealed (I do) then the age issue becomes even less of an issue.....they definitely won't hire you if you don't apply but if you do apply make sure (in my opinion) you have already committed yourself toward fully understanding and knowing why you're wanting to work at SWA....if this is an exploratory campaign to judge your interest in SWA, I would recommend, in all due respect, don't waste your time or SWA's....but hey it's a free country & give it a shot, you may find Southwest is just to your liking...it isn't to everyone but they welcome all comers!!! Good luck,
 
Southwest Airlines will hire any and all Types as long as they know how to fly a 737. No pun intended..Seriously, why waiste your time worrying about the ratio of Military to Civillian personnel hired....If they are hiring,....then they are hiring...


Give it all you got and hope for the best....Just remember the morning you walk into your interview that you are being reviewed by some of the best analyst the industry has to offer...The best advice given to me years ago was....Be Yourself...

Dont worry about the guy passing around a peice of paper wanting to get everyones name and email address....perhaps he's just trying to cover up some imperfection in his true credentials...Be yourself, Be cordial, but most of all, never succomb to trying to fit into a situation that really may not be you..

SWA is a different culture....Like all cultures at all airlines they are looking for somebody that will fit in..So just be yourself...If they like you maybe you will get a job/career. If not keep pressing on....

Becoming an airline pilot is like wearing a Hawaiian Shirt to the Innauguration Party of a Republican President....Who knows how you will be received other than the President. Bottom line, if you can make it past the Security then your on your own....Quick Tounge, Stories, and anything else you can imagine will probably get you some attention....CLOSING THE DEAL is up to you..Thats the Bottom Line..
 
Chase, I love your analogy. Oh, how true that is. I was on the last decision board on the 11th and 12th and got the letter from Amy last Tuesday. I think I was on my A game for the interview. Everyone I interviewed with said I had a great interview. One of them even told me I was displaying some incredible qualities that Southwest Airlines is looking for. A week after the interview three of my 10 letters of rec. were called. Step in the right direction....sure. Then all my paperwork went before 21 Captains who never had the chance to meet me. Something flaged.......I don't know what that flag was. That is the hardest part.
Qualifications at time of interview:
30 years old---look much younger from what everone tells me:-)
6,200 TT
2,200 PIC Turbine (450 SF-430...1750 EMB-145)
3,700 Total Turbine
4,100 Total PIC
Double B.S. in Aviation Science and Medical Psychology
I have Flight Instructed, flew single pilot cargo(Check Pilot there), CA at current company for 3 years...Also a SF-340 Sim Instructor.

When I was back at work this week everyone asked if I got the job. The response was quite similar...What!! You have got to be kidding.
I have personally seen great guys/and gals go to Southwest from our company. I have also seen Captains who are on F/O's and F/A's no fly list get the call. All you can say is WOW, I don't get it.

Will I apply again? You better believe it. I was blessed with this opportunity to interview in December. I know a lot of pilots who have applied way before I did and have not had the chance to interview. I applied for the check airman slot about 6 months ago(when I felt like I could be effective in that position) Maybe that will fall my way.

All in all....do the Military pilots have an advantage?? I think so...but I don't have the inside scoop. I think the best way to recruit pilots would be to scout like MLB. "Hi I am a scout for SWA, wondering if I could sit in the jumpseat with you to Newark" How fun would that be:-) Yeah, I have strange dreams.

*****As for the interview.... go have fun, be honest, and smile until it hurts, then keep smiling. Great bunch of people to spend the day with. And remember.....Everything Happens For A Reason.********
 
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Scooby,

Well said...something tells me we'll see you at SWA in the future with a great story to tell...thanks for applying & encouraging others with your story...well done!!!
 
Focus?
>>Dont worry about the guy passing around a peice of paper wanting to get everyones name and email address....perhaps he's just trying to cover up some imperfection in his true credentials...<<

How would some guy passing around a sheet of paper to keep in touch with the guys he interviewed with be considered "trying to cover up..."?
No big deal if I get an answer or not, I'm just really curious how you came up with that view.
 
walden said:
How would some guy passing around a sheet of paper to keep in touch with the guys he interviewed with be considered "trying to cover up..."?
No big deal if I get an answer or not, I'm just really curious how you came up with that view.

I don't find that odd either. In fact, I thought it common practice to exchange email/phone info to keep in touch with fellow applicants. I think it's a great idea!
 
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Show 'em who you are with a sincere smile

SkyW,
There's some great info listed above from chase and Resume Writer and others. Congrats on the interview - you've achieved what many, many folks would love to have - the opportunity to show SWA who you are.

Scooby, you WILL be back, my friend!

The question of hiring military vs civilian is a difficult one to answer...sheer speculation at best. One thing is for sure, the PD folks want to meet you and are not necessarily going to compare you with others as they are just going to see if you are a great fit for SWA. I've seen, read, heard of many great folks - both military and civilian - get the letter of rejection. I was extremely fortunate on the last DB to get the good news call. I also realize that some really great guys that I know personally got the letter instead...why? Gosh, that is such a tough question. The question gets even more complex when a guy with all civilian time gets the letter while a military guy gets the call (albeit they each had similar interview experiences and got their references called). If the references get called for a candidate but for some reason the candidate gets the letter, there will always be questions as to why. A simple answer may be that the candidate doesn't have the amount of PIC time the DB is looking for on that particular board or possibly doesn't have check airman/standardization pilot box checked. Doesn't mean they're not a great pilot, it's just that the DB was looking for something else this time around. More quals in areas of leadership will always make you look better. Not saying that flying the line as a CA in the civ world or flying the line as a military aircraft commander aren't great things. The fact that others have gotten on board w/out advanced quals doesn't mean anything...that was the past and this is now - you want to strive to show them you're willing to be that checkairman or instructor/standardization guy. If I were getting ready for the interview, a couple of things you may want to do (and please know I very humbly submit the following - I'm just one of those types of guys that sweated wearing a red or blue tie - brought them both and in the end wore the one I thought would make me more comfortable (the red one)):
1. Know, review and be able to articulate your flying experiences. Review your log book for good/challenging/conflict events. Be able to discuss the weak areas and be upfront and honest with them.
2. Talk with the folks that are on your contact list as well as your LOR folks. Yes, you may have talked with them in the not so distant past because you're applying to a couple of different airlines, but make sure they know why you want SWA. Your contacts and LOR folks will be contacted - make sure they can speak about you in the best possible way.
3. Make a great spreadsheet on your flight time that is Southwest specific. Show this spreadsheet to a pilot buddy and see if they can follow everything you've listed. While this topic hasn't been listed much, I'm a believer that it's yet again one of the things you control during the interview. Make it a great one!
4. Remember that the interview starts the moment you leave your home till you return home. If you're flying SWA, take time to meet and thank everyone you come in contact with - and show them genuine interest.

I list the above four things knowing you've already done your homework and are prepared...but if you were going to do some things during the last two weeks, those are what I'd do. By all means, go there and have FUN. Easier said than done. But if you've prepared, you'll sweat the little things much less and it will show! They know you're going to be nervous but they'll also know you're a heck of a great guy if you can still open up to them during an all important interview.

For those who got the rejection and are wondering "what the he!!," I feel your pain. Keep the faith! Having been turned down by a great airline prior to the SWA interview, it's tough to be lighthearted, positive and optomistic after interviewing and coming up short. Reading encouraging posts on this board helped me tremendously (especially you, chase). Sorry for the long post, but I know there are many folks wondering the original poster's question. Take care and fly safe!

jtb
 
Not to stir the pot, but it appears that a few people who didn't get hired probably worked for CHQ. Don't know if that had anything to do with it or not. Just food for thought.
 
That is opposite to airline thinking...

Benhuntn said:
Most mil guys seemed to be older, which equals less time in the company which equals lest overall cost to the company, since they will not be there for 25-30 years like our younger civ. counterparts. Just my thoughts...

It used to be the airlines would not hire a pilot over 32 -34 years of age. They wanted to hire young to get the maximum amount of return in their training investment. Many airlines reach the maximum pay rate with in the first 15 years (12 years at AMR). Paradigms change.
 

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