Is NetJets a career place?

[gunfyter]

Everyone throttle back on 214...he just likes to come over from the Corp board and do some NJA bashing for sport! For some reason he's had an axe to grind with us for some time.

I see you and other Corp guys make the point that there are better Corp jobs out there with better bennies and moola. quote]

Thats funny.... I read 214's posts on our board all the time. What Corporation do we let on the IBT message board?

 

[buttercup]

as214.....NetJets is somewhere between the Regionals and most of the Majors. Many people is this world can live quite comfortably in this realm.

What are you trying to prove with these posts? NetJets will never be a United, Delta or American airlines but most people have a better chance getting hired here then at those places so for them, and I include myself in that proud group, this is a career. And there certainly isn't anything wrong with it.

I certainly would leave here to go to some other 121 scheduled carriers and that includes SWA. And I have no apps out with anyone else.

Every pilot has to make their choice...some choices are more limited than other...This isn't for everyone, but for those who are cut out for it, its not a bad way to go.

DO,

I respect your post and opinions. You have an open mind and I respect that. You are quick to highlight the positive and negative aspects of NJA. The problem is that some have a tendency to accentuate only the positive, or to elaborate. Many potential new-hires and job seekers read these boards. Most with families. They need to have an unbiased, unadulterated breakdown of the do's and dont's, the haves and the have nots of obtaining employment at NJA. They need to weight the variables and then make the best decison possible. Never did I bash NJA above I merely offered my opinion. I don't think it is a career, it is a job. I stick by what I said. Ask any JBLU or SWA or FEDEX or UPS drivers if theyd go to NJA. NJA guys on the other hand would leave to go to those places. What does that tell you?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Faulty numbers and questionable assumptions?

Yep.

Only work half the year? Let's see 7 on, 7 off with 14 hours of duty per day . 14*7=98 hours per tour times 2=196 hours of duty per month. A forty hour work-week=160 hours per month.

Nobody works 14-hour days every day, therefore "faulty numbers." If you do, I hope to never fly with you, because that speaks volumes about your judgement, or lack thereof.

...we also do many more RON;s than airline guys. So saying we work 10-12 hours a day is invalid and inaccurate.

This is a "questionable assumption."
I was at the airlines pre-NJA. How many RONs you had depended on which schedule you worked but the majority of lines were 4-on 3-off, or CDOs. If you were VERY senior you could hold 3-on 4-off. The average pilot had many more RONs than we do at NJA.

Even if you fly a 10 hour day you'll sit around an FBO for three more hours before they release you for yet another 10 hour turn. It is a slave shop.

While that may be true for you, it's not for most people I've talked to, and certainly not for me. One thing I noticed at the airline was the guys who always bitched about how scheduling was screwing them ended up getting screwed. Cause or effect? The same thing happens here. Maybe if you just did your job and didn't bitch so much, you might not get screwed so often.

You are saying it takes 5 to 10 years for a Major guy to get 17-18 off a month that is a lie to. Ask anyone here who has left for Jetblue or ask the above gentleman who is at AWA about that. I guarantee he has the option to bid his schedule as such to get 17 off after two years if he wants.

A) JetBlue is not a major. B) AWA just recently became one with the USAir merger. C) I haven't worked for either, and haven't researched their contracts, so can't comment on their schedules.

However, you might want to go ask around on the "Majors" board how the concessionary contracts they're working under have contributed to their ability to have 18 days off per month, and how senior they'd have to be to hold it. While you're at it, why don't you ask the USAir guys how many years seniority their most junior FO has. Or Delta. Or NWA. How about United? Again, "questionable assumptions."

 

[Hawker dude]

DO,

I respect your post and opinions. You have an open mind and I respect that. You are quick to highlight the positive and negative aspects of NJA. The problem is that some have a tendency to accentuate only the positive, or to elaborate. Many potential new-hires and job seekers read these boards. Most with families. They need to have an unbiased, unadulterated breakdown of the do's and dont's, the haves and the have nots of obtaining employment at NJA. They need to weight the variables and then make the best decison possible. Never did I bash NJA above I merely offered my opinion. I don't think it is a career, it is a job. I stick by what I said. Ask any JBLU or SWA or FEDEX or UPS drivers if theyd go to NJA. NJA guys on the other hand would leave to go to those places. What does that tell you?

Dude,

some people do think NJA is a career place. some things aren't great about it but what job is perfect? 7 days on are tough, but 7 days off are great. vacation is great. if you like your schedule you don't have to bid again. while at work, yes than can use 14 hours. like most airlines jobs, the FAA rule is 16 hours. Some people only have to work a max of 12. Not having to commute is awesome and for me makes all the other B.S. worth it.

Lets see SWA, you pay $7,000 for a job, you can only commute on one side. I've heard from guys that Jetblue and Airtran are the same, can only commute on one side. once all these company's right size the upgrades will slow just like the majors did. I guess if you get in at the right time it can be great, but in todays world no airline is safe.

Fed Ex does seem like a great career but, you have to know the right people to get in and some people don't have a sponsor and 3 internal recommendations. UPS first year pay sucks but, seems like a good company. they are in a huge battle with management right now. Of course if the government gets its way and lets foreign companys invade the market than US cargo companys might not be safe.

So, you make some OK points but still wondering what great company you work for? and how you now the where the best place to be is?

 

[buttercup]

Yep.


Nobody works 14-hour days every day, therefore "faulty numbers." If you do, I hope to never fly with you, because that speaks volumes about your judgement, or lack thereof.


This is a "questionable assumption."
I was at the airlines pre-NJA. How many RONs you had depended on which schedule you worked but the majority of lines were 4-on 3-off, or CDOs. If you were VERY senior you could hold 3-on 4-off. The average pilot had many more RONs than we do at NJA.

While that may be true for you, it's not for most people I've talked to, and certainly not for me. One thing I noticed at the airline was the guys who always bitched about how scheduling was screwing them ended up getting screwed. Cause or effect? I've noticed the same thing happening here. Maybe if you just did your job and didn't bitch so much, you might not get screwed so often.

A) JetBlue is not a major. B) AWA just recently became one with the USAir merger. C) I haven't worked for either, and haven't researched their contracts, so can't comment on their schedules.

However, you might want to go ask around on the "Majors" board how the concessionary contracts they're working under have contributed to their ability to have 18 days off per month, and how senior they'd have to be to hold it. While you're at it, why don't you ask the USAir guys how many years seniority their most junior FO has. Or Delta. Or NWA. How about United? Again, "questionable assumptions."

14 hours was used as a "common ground". The fact is when you are away from home that is work, I could have easily said you work 24 hours a day when on the road. It's obvious you lack self-worth drawing such an assumption. Here's a buck go buy some of it. And by the way which airline did you work for that made you work 4 on 3 off after 5 to 10 years of accrued seniority? Let me guess your current job is the best job you've ever had and you live in the middle of nowhere and you're just happy to be flying a jet.

 

[Ultra Grump]

14 hours was used as a "common ground". The fact is when you are away from home that is work, I could have easily said you work 24 hours a day when on the road. It's obvious you lack self-worth drawing such an assumption.

You specifically referenced 14 hours of duty. Now you're backpedaling, trying to equate that to "time away." Sorry, but they're not the same thing. And an overnight is an overnight, whether it's at an airline or at NJA. Still 24 hours away from home. If you can't back up your assumptions, just say so.

Here's a buck go buy some of it.

Cle-ver. You already used that one on someone else a ways back though. Try coming up with some new material.

And by the way which airline did you work for that made you work 4 on 3 off after 5 to 10 years of accrued seniority? Let me guess the is the best job you've ever had.

Interesting. Called me a tool, then edited the post. Hello, Pot? Meet Kettle.

Stop with the name calling playboy.

This to Hawker Dude.

 

[buttercup]

You specifically referenced 14 hours of duty. Now you're backpedaling, trying to equate that to "time away." Sorry, but they're not the same thing. And an overnight is an overnight, whether it's at an airline or at NJA. Still 24 hours away from home. If you can't back up your assumptions, just say so.

Cle-ver. You already used that one on someone else a ways back though. Try coming up with some new material.

Interesting. Called me a tool, then edited the post. Hello, Pot? Meet Kettle.This to Hawker Dude.

Look you aren't worth my time I bet you probably flew for a regional and live in the sticks so now you're in heaven. So now the fact that you dont have to commute but new hires will (You probably voted yes on that) doesnt phase you because fu*k it you got yours who cares about them. Guess what bigshot that will come back to haunt you in the future when most domicile based guys will be thrown an extra 15k or so a year for being based there while HBA's are eliminated. By the way I hope you are a little more tactful with those you fly. Lets see how accurate I am just to summarize !. You live in an HBA 2. This is the best job youve ever had 3.You flew for a regional or were furloughed and are gunshy now and dont have enough heart to get back up and try again after getting koncked down. I'm waiting...

 

[Ultra Grump]

Look you aren't worth my time...

Apparently I am...

I bet you probably flew for a regional and live in the sticks so now you're in heaven. So now the fact that you dont have to commute but new hires will (You probably voted yes on that) doesnt phase you because fu*k it you got yours who cares about them. Guess what bigshot that will come back to haunt you in the future when most domicile based guys will be thrown an extra 15k or so a year for being based there while HBA's are eliminated. By the way I hope you are a little more tactful with those you fly.

I voted yes, on the whole package. Tactful? Because I called you out for being a whiner? If the shoe fits...

Lets see how accurate I am just to summarize !. You live in an HBA 2. This is the best job youve ever had 3.You flew for a regional or were furloughed and are gunshy now and dont have enough heart to get back up and try again after getting koncked down. I'm waiting...

1 out of 3 ain't bad. Okay, yes it is...

If it's so bad, why exactly are you at NJA? Let's see how accurate I am: 1) This is the only flying job you've ever had, excluding flying for mommy and daddy's business. 2) You've always wanted to go to a "major," but can't even measure up to JetBlue. 3) You're just generally pissed off at the world (because apparently it owes you something), and a real joy to be around. Close?

 

[DO-82 driver]

214....you said that NJA is not a career but rather is a job....OK, you're entitled to thatn opinion......what would, in your opinion, constitute a CAREER?

Is it the size of the a/c?
Type of Regs you work under?
Route structure
Company net worth?
the ability to include a hat as part of your uniform?

I would ask the several hundred furloughed airline guys here what they think about NJA being only a job......many of them thought they had CAREERS until they were furloughed

 

[buttercup]

214....you said that NJA is not a career but rather is a job....OK, you're entitled to thatn opinion......what would, in your opinion, constitute a CAREER?

Is it the size of the a/c?
Type of Regs you work under?
Route structure
Company net worth?
the ability to include a hat as part of your uniform?

I would ask the several hundred furloughed airline guys here what they think about NJA being only a job......many of them thought they had CAREERS until they were furloughed

Career= Stock options(see Jblu). discounted stock purchase program(swa), retirement not just 401K(see FedEx/UPS) and ability to make over 200K(The benchmark for what 100K was 10 years ago). And yes this is broad based throughout the aviation industry ,there are very few career positions in aviation anymore most are just jobs.