Is it possible? (US Airways flight)

[PhatAJ2008]

Heard a few rumors that the bird strike on the US Airways flight may have only taken out one engine, but the pilot shut down the wrong engine... I know pilots have mistakenly shut down the wrong engine before... Is it possible it happened on this flight?

 

[redneck jihad]

... Is it possible it happened on this flight?

no....

 

[BeCareful!]

And, No....

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think you're referring to the fact that one engine was still producing about 35% N1. Not enough to maintain flight, but luckily enough to provide electrical and hydraulic power to the aircraft and flight control systems.

Both engines have been found to contain bird remains.

This is a rumor generated and propagated by people who don't understand that just because an engine is still running doesn't mean it can provide enough power to sustain flight.

 

[Flywrite]

I found this:
http://ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2009/090204.html
with 8 keystrokes and two clicks. Maybe this would be a better source of info to clarify and refute a rumor than asking on a message board?

Does nobody know how to look things up for themselves anymore?

 

[redneck jihad]

Does nobody know how to look things up for themselves anymore?

ah, no...

 

[LR25]

Thats why at my airline we got flight engineers to slap the crap out us stupid pilots.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Heard a few rumors that the bird strike on the US Airways flight may have only taken out one engine, but the pilot shut down the wrong engine... I know pilots have mistakenly shut down the wrong engine before... Is it possible it happened on this flight?

The FDR (Flight Data Recorder) has been reviewed by the NTSB and it's been preliminarily determined that both engines lost power simultaneously, with one still turning at 35%. Usable thurst in turbine engines requires a much higher rotational speed. If they shut down the wrong side we'd know by now, both thru the CVR and FDR.

 

[Mike man]

I noticed the other day thy that 38% N1 was idle on the ground...FWIW. I didn't think to look during decent what flight idle was.

To answer your question it is possible that some one shut down the wrong engine, however it did not happen on this flight.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Maybe that's what the "idiot" comment on the ATC tapes was about.

"Idiot...you shut down the wrong engine."

Or not....

 

[Deli Guy]

Maybe that's what the "idiot" comment on the ATC tapes was about.

"Idiot...you shut down the wrong engine."

Or not....

Where was the "idiot" comment?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Where was the "idiot" comment?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/06/survivors.qanda/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

:47 mark of this recording.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/06/survivors.qanda/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

:47 mark of this recording.

I dunnno. I'm hearing "88" something... not "idiot." Maybe a call sign with 88 was being addressed by another controller in the background.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I dunnno. I'm hearing "88" something... not "idiot." Maybe a call sign with 88 was being addressed by another controller in the background.

After 10 years around jet engines, you may be correct. Besides, I used to listen to Ozzy Osbourne albums in reverse as a kid. Who knows what the heck I am hearing these days.

 

[SLUF4]

what would the N1 rotate at while just windmilling with no power in a glide?

 

[b707guy]

Depends on airspeed and altitude. Mid teens to low 20s N1 down near sea level and below 250 indicated.

Oxlong - you mentioned you observed 38% N1 as ground idle? Was this on a CFM-56? I haven't flown the newer series CFMs, but my experience with the older ones is that they should ground idle at around 21%, and flight idle on the ground (before "shifting" down to ground mode through whatever means the airplane decides it's on the ground) is closer to 38 or 40%.

 

[Britpilot]

Depends on airspeed and altitude. Mid teens to low 20s N1 down near sea level and below 250 indicated.

Oxlong - you mentioned you observed 38% N1 as ground idle? Was this on a CFM-56? I haven't flown the newer series CFMs, but my experience with the older ones is that they should ground idle at around 21%, and flight idle on the ground (before "shifting" down to ground mode through whatever means the airplane decides it's on the ground) is closer to 38 or 40%.

That's what I see on our CFM 56's. Around 21% Ground idle, around 38% Flight Idle, Approach Idle is a little more.

 

[Whine Lover]

I'm no expert...but, if I have two ( out of two ) engines flamed out, the " engine shutdown" checklist might not be my first choice.

I might go with some crazy sort of attempt to "restart" and see if I could find a checklist that said something along those lines.

Oh, I would probably also be swearing a lot, and my head would be swiveling around quicker than Linda Blair's while I was looking for the crash site I was going to be visiting in the next few minutes.

No Sirs, I don't think Sully and Skiles were busy shutting down any engines that day.

Let alone..."The wrong one".

DOH.


YKMKR

 

[indytestdude]

Yes they did try relighting the engines.

Food for thought:
1. Where were the thrust levers?
2. What vertical mode were they as far as auto flight?
3. Could the AT have commanded IDLE while they were descending?
4. Could they have mis-diagnosed the IDLE reading as being a failed engine?

Bottom line I hope they continue to be heros.

 

[Whine Lover]

"Yes they did try relighting the engines."

Ya. I know. Of course they did. And rather rapidly I would surmise.

However, I was responding to the original point of this ( as usual ) inane thread:

" Did they shut down the wrong engine? " (NO.)

My point being:

Shutting down an engine wasn't even part of the thought process in that cockpit.

( Unless, perhaps, they had a fire going, then securing it might have been a thought. Even then, why would you bother? You'd have to your advantage a very nice fire suppression system ( The Hudson ) in just a few moments anyway. )


YKW