Is it appropriate to pick up open time at EV

[Long Time Gone]

I have bills to pay, also. I can't help the fact that people could possibly be furloughed. It's the nature of the beast. Welcome to a seniority based career. You knew it going into it, and if you didn't, then you should have stayed at McDonald's.

If I were being furloughed or forced backwards, I surely wouldn't be "pissed" that individuals who need the money are picking up open time or trading for more income. If I were forced backwards, I'd definitely be picking up a slut full of open time, just to make ends meet. If the opportunity is there, I'm taking it.

 

[Speedtape]

I have bills to pay, also. I can't help the fact that people could possibly be furloughed. It's the nature of the beast. Welcome to a seniority based career. You knew it going into it, and if you didn't, then you should have stayed at McDonald's.

If I were being furloughed or forced backwards, I surely wouldn't be "pissed" that individuals who need the money are picking up open time or trading for more income. If I were forced backwards, I'd definitely be picking up a slut full of open time, just to make ends meet. If the opportunity is there, I'm taking it.

Believe me, you speak for the silent majority! However, some things are better left unsaid!

 

[BoilerUP]

Picking up open time or not, will not save one job.

If that was true, why do UPS pilots have a clause in their contract that, if furloughs are announced, the union can legally call for an Open Time Ban? More importantly, why were the furloughs UPS announced post-9/11 canceled after the Open Time Ban went into effect?

Also, your "equation" failed to take into account how many (if not all) airlines use historical open time pickup by the pilot group in their staffing models. If open time pickup disappears, the models go *poof* and more pilots are required to maintain the schedule.

In fact, I'm pretty sure Delta used historical open time pickup (and how it had slowed to a trickle) against DALPA during their pre-9/11 contract negotiations.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Actually, not picking up open time, is EXACTLY what the company wants you to do. That way, they can have reserves, that they are already paying guarantee, fly those trips.

The only one your are helping--the Company. The ones that you are hurting--you and the people you support in your tribe. Keep up the good work!

Exactly correct.

That is why if a line holder goes into a chief pilot to get a trip dropped, it is normally approved. It is cheaper to have a reserve fly it because they are already getting guarantee, and the original pilot gets docked those hours.

Same goes for open time. Reserves are cheaper than line pilots. So, in that light, don't pick up open time because it saves the company money! (Now all the union bangers are going to demand that we pick up open time...)

 

[sweptback]

Same goes for open time. Reserves are cheaper than line pilots.

Not in December they weren't.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Not in December they weren't.

Depends on what seat you are talking about. CRJ FOs only flew close to guarantee if they were call me first. There were plenty of CRJ FOs way way below guarantee.

Captains are a different story.

 

[sweptback]

Captains are a different story.

I only have access to the 200 reserve list, but it looks like they're flying them pretty hard.

 

[erikgigem]

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to throw rocks from your glass house......you might let in a cold chill from the Midwest.

oh sorry. thats different. right?....

Pilot group is grieving that illegal action on Midwest. We have no control over our CEOs actions. Labor's only legal answer to a contract violation is through the grievance process as provided by the law.

ASA/Skywest has yet to feel the pain of furloughes unlike many of the regional/majors airlines out there. We pray that you still don't.

Many/most RJET pilots are making sacrifices in not picking up overtime while a significant number of RJET pilots are jobless. Many (not all) are making sacrifices, cutting back on expenses, bidding minimum schedule, etc.. Just a simple point. Pilots will do what they do - but selflessness is always a good virtue - and needs to be encouraged. :beer:

 

[flynryan15]

When I was in recurrent at XJT the week we found out of our furlough. The instructor ask us, if we had any gripes in our free half hour? A senior Captain proceed to piss and moan that bringing down the line divisor was BULL@#%$! He couldn't live on less then 90 hrs a month he had a house, 2 cars, and a boat.

We quickly pointed out 7 out of 10 in the class can't live at 0 hrs. Don't worry buddy XJT is still running a very high line divisor with guys on the street. It is great now that NO ONE is hiring!

 

[777forever]

I only have access to the 200 reserve list, but it looks like they're flying them pretty hard.

Some on the 700 have broken guarantee!

 

[MusicMan]

I can only speak for my airline, but open time is a part of our negotiated contract. It is paid at 1.5 times normal pay and there are very strict rules about open trips being made available at this rate. That being said, staffing levels including reserve coverage are planned based on a certain level of open time being available and needing to be covered. It does not hurt the company to have reserves flying these trips as that was the plan all along. The reserves do not break guarantee and the flying is essential a freebie to the company. On the other hand, pilots pick up the flying at time and a half and now the company is having to pay 2.5 pay to fly that trip. They are paying the guy who picked it up 1.5 times and they are paying the reserve, who is now sitting at home, straight time. Now I don't think there is a single thing a pilot group can do to bring furloughs back. However, we can cost the company as much money as possible to fly the trips they need covered.

Additionally, before furloughs at my particular airline, we had open time. We have lost some flight hours and as a result have furloughed. The amount of open time has also proportionately dropped. Trust me, if we stop picking up open time, the company won't even blink. Open time is planned. Pick it up and take your company for as much money as you guys can squeeze out of them. If you don't, the company gets a free ride and your furloughed brothers and sisters are still no better off.

If not picking up open times satisfies your moral compass then don't pick it up and feel good that in your mind you are doing the right thing. Other people have different opinions though and that is their right too. This is like arguing religion. Polarizing views with no absolute proof of anything.

 

[ohplease!]

Pilot group is grieving that illegal action on Midwest. We have no control over our CEOs actions. Labor's only legal answer to a contract violation is through the grievance process as provided by the law.

ASA/Skywest has yet to feel the pain of furloughes unlike many of the regional/majors airlines out there. We pray that you still don't.

Many/most RJET pilots are making sacrifices in not picking up overtime while a significant number of RJET pilots are jobless. Many (not all) are making sacrifices, cutting back on expenses, bidding minimum schedule, etc.. Just a simple point. Pilots will do what they do - but selflessness is always a good virtue - and needs to be encouraged. :beer:

you were pretty happy about getting that Midwest stuff just in time to have a place for those displaced planes....I doubt the Midwest guys felt the same.

but like you said...none of us has any say in what our companies do.