Is I.O.E. considered dual recieved?

[TWA Dude]

I agree with Frenchy and the others: IOE is SIC time. The concept of Dual Received doesn't apply to Part 121 operations. Dual is a Part 91 kind of thing. Do airline sim or line instructors endorse your logbook? No, because they don't have to. Don't worry about it.

 

[DoinTime]

Allright you guys made me get out my FAR's. Turns out I was right the first time.

61.51(h) Logging training time (dual):
(1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized individual in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

Translation - anytime you are with a IP for the purpose of training whether it be in a 747 or a frasca 141 you log as dual received.

121.434 (a) No certificate holder may use a person nor may any person serve as a required crewmember of an airplane unless the person has satisfactorily completed, on that type of airplane and in that crewmember position, the operating experience, operating cycles, and the line operating flight time for consolidation of knowledge and skills, required by this section, except as follows:
(1) Crewmembers other than pilots in command may serve as provided herein for the purpose of meeting the requirements of this section.
(2) Pilots who are meeting the pilot in command requirements may serve as second in command.

Translation - First Officers are not qualified to be SIC until O.E. is complete, but they may serve as SIC for the purpose of meeting this requirement. In other words you can perform the duties of SIC but only under the supervision of a qualified check pilot until your O.E. is complete. Captains are not qualified to be PIC until Fed ride and O.E. is complete and will serve as SIC while performing the duties of the PIC under the supervision of a qualified check pilot until completion of these requirements. While under the supervision of a qualified check airman you are receiving instruction, whether you feel like you are learning or not.

Airlines are required to keep training records for you so you are not required to keep them yourselves. Your training records are the proof that you are qualified to do the job that you do and if your airline either loses or destroys your records you have no proof to future employers that you actually did what you are claiming. Your logs are your business but I keep all of my training events logged and endorsed just in case the company screws it up, who knows, someday it may save my butt.

 

[Blueline]

While under the supervision of a qualified check airman you are receiving instruction, whether you feel like you are learning or not.

Here's a question then: Can you log dual received if the person giving the instruction as a check airman is not a CFI/CFII? A check airman does not have to have a CFI or CFII to instruct in a 121 operation.

 

[DoinTime]

61.167 (b) An airline transport pilot may instruct -
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, class, and type, as applicable, for which the airline transport pilot is rated and endorse the logbook or other training record of the person to whom training has been given.

 

[tdvalve]

Man, are some of you guys full of it!
For the record, you absolutely, positively, cannot provide nor receive dual instruction during a part 121 or Part 135 revenue flight. Operating experience is not considered training, and certainly is not dual instruction.

 

[Blueline]

I agree.

 

[DoinTime]

It really is a shame that professional aviators, such as yourselves, have to have the FAR's read to you.

 

[1900laker]

This is a moot point. You are not required to log the dual received portion anyways. You only have to log that time which counts toward a rating or to show currency.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Why do you want to log dual received anyway? It isnt' required for anything, and does you no good. You must have an instructor sign your LOGBOOK (not the company training records) for any dual instruction given. I have never heard of any airline instructors signing anybodys logbook. Just log it as a required crewmember, sic or pic as appropriate. Forget about dual, unless you are getting a BFR in a Cessna.