Is Flight Options Close to Bankruptcy?

[LR45JI]

If my memory serves me right - when I was at Midway, we hired some folks in late July, maybe even early August, sent guys to Atlanta to upgrade etc...etc...etc...and were selling tickets for flight on the 12th when they knew they were going to close those routes the next day!

The company knew **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well they were filling Ch.11, but they kept the "appearance" looking like everything was kosher....

You just never know!!

 

[Dep676]

You speak of the 12th. Do you mean Sept 12th? If so that would not be a good comparasion. We all know what Sept 11th did to the airline industry. Which be the way was in sad shape before the 11th anyway. They just used that for an excuse to get a hand out.

If Options does go under oh well. If we all lived are lives on what if's we may as well not get out of bed. The market could tank even worse tomorrow and we all would out of jobs. Do you remember a little thing in the 30's called a depression? It could happen again.

Another question for all the non-Options pilots. Why do you even care what happens to us here. It's not your job that is at stake if Options goes under. Maybe you should worry about your own jobs a little bit more and not worry so much about ours. Your could be next. If you think otherwise you should really pull your head out of the sand. Get a little air and clear your minds.

If you think any job is secure you are kidding yourself. Just ask the guys at all the airlines and cushy corporate jobs that went bye-bye over night. Like Tyco, WorldCom and all the others. I bet if you would have asked them a week or a day before theirs job were gone. They would have laughed and said not us. We got it made I am going to retire here.

If it gets real bad just get used to saying "would you like fries with that". It's just a reality in aviation. Nothing is for sure.

 

[beytzim]

Right. As an ex-Kitty Hawker I can agree with that. The company was hiring like crazy while losing money hand over foot.

The problem was so simple too. The HR and then training dept. were told to hire x amount of pilots for the next x months. Meanwhile, down the hall, upper management was so busy trying to fix things with the rest of the company that they simply forgot about all the pilots getting hired. Maybe, they didn't forget, but rather refused to believe the company was losing money. In fact, they were so 'optimistic' of a quick turn-around, that they never even reported the loss to the companies' share holders!

That's reality. Not fiction. That was with a PUBLIC company. Imagine what happens in privately held companies.

Just MY 2 cents.

(Oh yeh, JP11: any intel is good intel.)

 

[scav8er]

Anyone hear anything about Netjets canceling a bunch of orders on new aircraft? I ran into a netjets pilot on the road the other day and he siad they were canceling a bunch of orders. I dont know if they were canceling a aircraft to go with something else or what. Just thought it was interesting to hear.

 

[Dep676]

Oh they must be getting close to bankruptcy then too HUH? Only following suit with all the rumors.

Again why worry about us at Options if you don't work here? If we go under you will still have your jobs won't you? Maybe or Maybe not. You never know what the next day brings in aviation.

Don't lose any sleep over it. I know I am not. Won't be the first company that I worked for that went under over night. That's life and take it as it comes.

 

[Lrjet55]

With regards to the NetJets questions I was recently in Columbus, NOT doing the Bridgeway 1 arrival or the Lucey 4 departure, but rather for trainning purposes and spoke with several of the higher ups regarding orders. There have been not been any cancellations of orders due to poor financial status. Any possible cancellations could only be due to poor production or delivery. After speaking with the Gulfstream rep regarding the G200 and some of the other future orders and deliveries, things are most definately alive and well.
We are also scheduled to receive additional Citation X's totalling the fleet close to 70 this year with a fleet total reaching in the 90's next year.
I love Uncle Warren!

 

[Dep676]

See how much you like "Unlce Warren" when he dumps you guys to the way side. When he can't write it off as a loss anymore. Don't think that he's not either. Why would any buddy keep a company that isn't profitable? Sound like non-sense. Don't think they way too much.

Again nobody cares to chime in why they are so worried about us at Options.

 

[Diesel]

Dep676- I think the reason everyone is so interested in what goes on at FLOPS is the same reason people slow down when driving by an accident. We as pilots want to know all the information that is available to us before we make a decision.

Nobody is trying to badmouth FLOPS just with this ENRON fiasco and WorldCom we are all a little skeptical and are looking for more information.

Yes we did hear from the chief pilot that we reduced our orders for 2003 due to the weak economy. That only makes sense to me. So basically this means we are only taking 500 pilots or so next year instead of 750. Oh and the orders of aircraft are still rolling in.

We did turn away a bunch of G200 because of poor quality of workmanship. I think the word is 8 out of 9.

 

[Lrjet55]

Sounds like pistol boy is having his time of the month early!
I am not criticizing your company, Sally.
The status of the fractional industry is very interesting and as Deisel put it curiosity does get the best of us from time to time. The difference I see between those of us at NetJets and a person such as yourself is... well, honestly I dont know why you are the way you are. Be happy at your job. You know what the status of you company is better than we do and we know the status of our job better than you. If someone prints something you think is wrong then simply correct them.

 

[Dep676]

I believe that a few of us from Options have tried to correct or give or insight about it. The naysayers seem to think that they know more about our company than we do. They keep posting that we seem to not know what is going on. That is why I ask why they were so worried what happens to us.

Did I touch a nerve with confronting you with asking why you are so worried about us? That you had to resort to name calling and getting all defensive. Nobody would answer the question so I kept posting it.

They all came up with excuses as why NetJets canceled orders for aircraft. If that happened at Options they are automatically going under. Even if someone says that it is because the economy is in the crapper. We are not believed anyway.

Don't get to comfy in your job today. It could be gone tomorrow as well.

 

[Lrjet55]

Well, since I value your opinion so much I will make sure that I never get comfortable at my job. Furthermore I will make sure that the day I lose my job i personally contact you first so that you, of all people, will have the grandiose oportunity to say those 4 choice words, I Told You So. I am currently staring at my computer screen awaiting your approval.

Listen Junior, people on this forum may have it out for your company, others may simply be stirring the pot and most, unfortunately, just dont have a clue. From an industry perspective this Ricci guy, who is running FLOPS, has a reputation and character perception of someone to, say, not be trusted. If FLOPS suddenly starts delaying or even cancelling orders for airplanes it is only natural that the naysayers will come out of the wood work to voice their opinion. If you would have read some of the prior messages I posted, never did I wish ill will or criticize the pilots at your company. I conveyed my opinion regarding Ricci and nothing further. I happen to have several friends at FLOPS and I wish them nothing but the best.
Next, with regards to NetJets, people are less quick to second guess our descisions about ordering or cancelling aircaft orders. Again this could, in part, be due to the industry image we hold. My saying "I love uncle Warren" was in no way a derrogatory comment towards FLOPS nor some miss guided Freudian slip.
Finally, whether people want to believe it or not the competition between the two companies is healthy. People are obviously going to weigh in either way with their opinion. I am happy people do so.
To sum up my commnet, NO you did not touch a "nerve" and no I did not resort to name calling. "Sally" unfortunately does not fall into what I would catagorize as name calling. I have several others if you would like try them out! I cant believe I just spend 5 good minutes dignifiying a response... its a sad, sad state of affairs in my life.

 

[LR45JI]

Deep 676,

I was refering to August 12/13, 2001 when Midway filled for Chapter 11 protection and laid-off 700 employees overnight - before 9/11.

Midway ceased operations in Sept. 12th

 

[fracman]

DRVSM

Any idea how FO is planning to upgrade their fleet to meet this requirement? Huge issue, especially for the used programs.

 

[Jetz]

Question

To borrow a question from another thread here on the lovely fractionals board...do y'all think that the accidents and lawsuits brought forth therewith have anything to do with Flight Options bad financial situation?

 

[sweptwingz]

Come on, can't we all just get along?

I am amazed at the genuine glee that some of the pilots here seem to have
when another fractional company seems to have (rumors only) some sort of
financial troubles.
I want ALL of the fractionals to thrive. Why? Simple economics. As long as
pilots are gainfully employed, salaries trend UPWARD. When hiring stagnates,
or the market is pilot glutted (like now) salaries tend to stabilize, or trend downward.
I believe that there is plenty of pie out there...enough to give every fractional
company and their pilots a large slice. So instead to cackling with joy that your
rival may be hitting hard times, perhaps a word of encouragement might be
in order. And remember....the only SURE thing in aviation is that your current
career position in NOT guaranteed.