Turbinehead
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Is Flight Options Close to Bankruptcy?
- Thread starter RJL
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trainerjet
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banned username 2
Banned User
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X/2000 driver said:
Avolar "bought" a bunch of Falcon 50EX's, Falcon 2000's, Falcon 900EX's, Gulfstream IVsp's, Gulfstream V's and you see where they are right now...
Also they announced a bunch of LearJet purchases, then just a couple weeks later they said they were closing the doors...
Things that make you say "Hhhmmmm....."
SheGaveMeClap
Your wife's boyfriend
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- Dec 1, 2001
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Even in a bad economy, Flight Options is selling 7.5 airplanes per quarter. In a slow year, it's estimated we will sell 30 airplanes. When this economy turns around, that number will increase significantly. Keep this thread going, it makes me laugh watching non-Options folks talk doom and gloom about our company. This is great entertainment for my days off!!!
Are those numbers accurate? My brother sells aircraft parts (used to work for Raytheon) and he did research on flight options for me- he found the sales numbers flight options reports to the FAA. He used a system called jetnet.
He said that according to the FAA, Flight Options really sold less than 4 aircraft in the second quarter of 2002 and less than 3 aircraft in the third quarter 2002. They also have been buying back shares (i guess like all companies do). He told me the year to date numbers for flight options are that they only sold about 11 aircraft all year (really only about 7 jets with the buy backs).
He said that Flight Options would probably sell less than 12 total jets this year after fractional share buy backs. I figure that 12 jets times 5 pilots per plane would be about 60 new pilot openings (plus other open seats from the people being let go because of the union mess)- is that right?
I asked him why there are so many weird numbers out there, and he said that Flight Options keeps taking credit for sales that where made by Raytheon Travel Air before the 2 companies merged.
My brother said I should stop sending my resume to those folks. Sounds like he may be right.
He said that according to the FAA, Flight Options really sold less than 4 aircraft in the second quarter of 2002 and less than 3 aircraft in the third quarter 2002. They also have been buying back shares (i guess like all companies do). He told me the year to date numbers for flight options are that they only sold about 11 aircraft all year (really only about 7 jets with the buy backs).
He said that Flight Options would probably sell less than 12 total jets this year after fractional share buy backs. I figure that 12 jets times 5 pilots per plane would be about 60 new pilot openings (plus other open seats from the people being let go because of the union mess)- is that right?
I asked him why there are so many weird numbers out there, and he said that Flight Options keeps taking credit for sales that where made by Raytheon Travel Air before the 2 companies merged.
My brother said I should stop sending my resume to those folks. Sounds like he may be right.
SheGaveMeClap
Your wife's boyfriend
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Will do. Thanks for the info. and good luck friend.
Watch out when it comes to "quoting managment"- It only took me 23 years with my head in the clouds to finally figure out that people aren't always as nice and honest as we would like to believe that they are.
Anyone know of an honest airline, cargo, or corporate flight department? I would love to work for them. I would rather be told bad news and work harder to make it right than be lied to.
RJ
Watch out when it comes to "quoting managment"- It only took me 23 years with my head in the clouds to finally figure out that people aren't always as nice and honest as we would like to believe that they are.
Anyone know of an honest airline, cargo, or corporate flight department? I would love to work for them. I would rather be told bad news and work harder to make it right than be lied to.
RJ
SheGaveMeClap
Your wife's boyfriend
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RJL,
Like I said, I was just passing on what we heard. Options is running about 20-30 newhires through school per month. If we aren't getting new airplanes on property, I don't know what these new guys would be flying. We continue to be short staffed, so we must be doing something right. If we weren't selling airplanes, we probably wouldn't be flying as much as we are.
Good luck in the job search.
Like I said, I was just passing on what we heard. Options is running about 20-30 newhires through school per month. If we aren't getting new airplanes on property, I don't know what these new guys would be flying. We continue to be short staffed, so we must be doing something right. If we weren't selling airplanes, we probably wouldn't be flying as much as we are.
Good luck in the job search.
Flight Options Sales
Pretty easy AMSTAT search - here's the YTD title transfers
Sold: 169 shares/13.1 aircraft. Average share size 62 hours.
Repurchased: 64 shares/5.625 aircraft. Average share size 70 hours.
Net Sales: 105 shares/7.475 aircraft. Average share size 57 hours.
Again - this is AMSTAT data, not my opinion.
Fly safe.
Pretty easy AMSTAT search - here's the YTD title transfers
Sold: 169 shares/13.1 aircraft. Average share size 62 hours.
Repurchased: 64 shares/5.625 aircraft. Average share size 70 hours.
Net Sales: 105 shares/7.475 aircraft. Average share size 57 hours.
Again - this is AMSTAT data, not my opinion.
Fly safe.
NAYSAYERS
Again the simple question of why are they hiring so many people? There were 20 in class last month and heard of possibly 2 classes this month. Also stepping up the interview from 2 a day to 4 a day possibly. Why would they waste time doing all of this if they are going under? Spend all of this money sending all these guys to school and get trained on the airplanes. Just ask that. Do you think a company that is going under spend that kind of dough? Again you show me a company, in aviation, that has made a lot of money this year. All of them are in debt somehow. That's just a fact of life in aviation. Just food for thought.
Again the simple question of why are they hiring so many people? There were 20 in class last month and heard of possibly 2 classes this month. Also stepping up the interview from 2 a day to 4 a day possibly. Why would they waste time doing all of this if they are going under? Spend all of this money sending all these guys to school and get trained on the airplanes. Just ask that. Do you think a company that is going under spend that kind of dough? Again you show me a company, in aviation, that has made a lot of money this year. All of them are in debt somehow. That's just a fact of life in aviation. Just food for thought.
If my memory serves me right - when I was at Midway, we hired some folks in late July, maybe even early August, sent guys to Atlanta to upgrade etc...etc...etc...and were selling tickets for flight on the 12th when they knew they were going to close those routes the next day!
The company knew **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well they were filling Ch.11, but they kept the "appearance" looking like everything was kosher....
You just never know!!
The company knew **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well they were filling Ch.11, but they kept the "appearance" looking like everything was kosher....
You just never know!!
You speak of the 12th. Do you mean Sept 12th? If so that would not be a good comparasion. We all know what Sept 11th did to the airline industry. Which be the way was in sad shape before the 11th anyway. They just used that for an excuse to get a hand out.
If Options does go under oh well. If we all lived are lives on what if's we may as well not get out of bed. The market could tank even worse tomorrow and we all would out of jobs. Do you remember a little thing in the 30's called a depression? It could happen again.
Another question for all the non-Options pilots. Why do you even care what happens to us here. It's not your job that is at stake if Options goes under. Maybe you should worry about your own jobs a little bit more and not worry so much about ours. Your could be next. If you think otherwise you should really pull your head out of the sand. Get a little air and clear your minds.
If you think any job is secure you are kidding yourself. Just ask the guys at all the airlines and cushy corporate jobs that went bye-bye over night. Like Tyco, WorldCom and all the others. I bet if you would have asked them a week or a day before theirs job were gone. They would have laughed and said not us. We got it made I am going to retire here.
If it gets real bad just get used to saying "would you like fries with that". It's just a reality in aviation. Nothing is for sure.
If Options does go under oh well. If we all lived are lives on what if's we may as well not get out of bed. The market could tank even worse tomorrow and we all would out of jobs. Do you remember a little thing in the 30's called a depression? It could happen again.
Another question for all the non-Options pilots. Why do you even care what happens to us here. It's not your job that is at stake if Options goes under. Maybe you should worry about your own jobs a little bit more and not worry so much about ours. Your could be next. If you think otherwise you should really pull your head out of the sand. Get a little air and clear your minds.
If you think any job is secure you are kidding yourself. Just ask the guys at all the airlines and cushy corporate jobs that went bye-bye over night. Like Tyco, WorldCom and all the others. I bet if you would have asked them a week or a day before theirs job were gone. They would have laughed and said not us. We got it made I am going to retire here.
If it gets real bad just get used to saying "would you like fries with that". It's just a reality in aviation. Nothing is for sure.
beytzim
Well-known member
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Right. As an ex-Kitty Hawker I can agree with that. The company was hiring like crazy while losing money hand over foot.
The problem was so simple too. The HR and then training dept. were told to hire x amount of pilots for the next x months. Meanwhile, down the hall, upper management was so busy trying to fix things with the rest of the company that they simply forgot about all the pilots getting hired. Maybe, they didn't forget, but rather refused to believe the company was losing money. In fact, they were so 'optimistic' of a quick turn-around, that they never even reported the loss to the companies' share holders!
That's reality. Not fiction. That was with a PUBLIC company. Imagine what happens in privately held companies.
Just MY 2 cents.
(Oh yeh, JP11: any intel is good intel.)
The problem was so simple too. The HR and then training dept. were told to hire x amount of pilots for the next x months. Meanwhile, down the hall, upper management was so busy trying to fix things with the rest of the company that they simply forgot about all the pilots getting hired. Maybe, they didn't forget, but rather refused to believe the company was losing money. In fact, they were so 'optimistic' of a quick turn-around, that they never even reported the loss to the companies' share holders!
That's reality. Not fiction. That was with a PUBLIC company. Imagine what happens in privately held companies.
Just MY 2 cents.
(Oh yeh, JP11: any intel is good intel.)
Anyone hear anything about Netjets canceling a bunch of orders on new aircraft? I ran into a netjets pilot on the road the other day and he siad they were canceling a bunch of orders. I dont know if they were canceling a aircraft to go with something else or what. Just thought it was interesting to hear.
Oh they must be getting close to bankruptcy then too HUH? Only following suit with all the rumors.
Again why worry about us at Options if you don't work here? If we go under you will still have your jobs won't you? Maybe or Maybe not. You never know what the next day brings in aviation.
Don't lose any sleep over it. I know I am not. Won't be the first company that I worked for that went under over night. That's life and take it as it comes.
Again why worry about us at Options if you don't work here? If we go under you will still have your jobs won't you? Maybe or Maybe not. You never know what the next day brings in aviation.
Don't lose any sleep over it. I know I am not. Won't be the first company that I worked for that went under over night. That's life and take it as it comes.
With regards to the NetJets questions I was recently in Columbus, NOT doing the Bridgeway 1 arrival or the Lucey 4 departure, but rather for trainning purposes and spoke with several of the higher ups regarding orders. There have been not been any cancellations of orders due to poor financial status. Any possible cancellations could only be due to poor production or delivery. After speaking with the Gulfstream rep regarding the G200 and some of the other future orders and deliveries, things are most definately alive and well.
We are also scheduled to receive additional Citation X's totalling the fleet close to 70 this year with a fleet total reaching in the 90's next year.
I love Uncle Warren!
We are also scheduled to receive additional Citation X's totalling the fleet close to 70 this year with a fleet total reaching in the 90's next year.
I love Uncle Warren!
See how much you like "Unlce Warren" when he dumps you guys to the way side. When he can't write it off as a loss anymore. Don't think that he's not either. Why would any buddy keep a company that isn't profitable? Sound like non-sense. Don't think they way too much.
Again nobody cares to chime in why they are so worried about us at Options.
Again nobody cares to chime in why they are so worried about us at Options.
Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,394
Dep676- I think the reason everyone is so interested in what goes on at FLOPS is the same reason people slow down when driving by an accident. We as pilots want to know all the information that is available to us before we make a decision.
Nobody is trying to badmouth FLOPS just with this ENRON fiasco and WorldCom we are all a little skeptical and are looking for more information.
Yes we did hear from the chief pilot that we reduced our orders for 2003 due to the weak economy. That only makes sense to me. So basically this means we are only taking 500 pilots or so next year instead of 750. Oh and the orders of aircraft are still rolling in.
We did turn away a bunch of G200 because of poor quality of workmanship. I think the word is 8 out of 9.
Nobody is trying to badmouth FLOPS just with this ENRON fiasco and WorldCom we are all a little skeptical and are looking for more information.
Yes we did hear from the chief pilot that we reduced our orders for 2003 due to the weak economy. That only makes sense to me. So basically this means we are only taking 500 pilots or so next year instead of 750. Oh and the orders of aircraft are still rolling in.
We did turn away a bunch of G200 because of poor quality of workmanship. I think the word is 8 out of 9.
Sounds like pistol boy is having his time of the month early!
I am not criticizing your company, Sally.
The status of the fractional industry is very interesting and as Deisel put it curiosity does get the best of us from time to time. The difference I see between those of us at NetJets and a person such as yourself is... well, honestly I dont know why you are the way you are. Be happy at your job. You know what the status of you company is better than we do and we know the status of our job better than you. If someone prints something you think is wrong then simply correct them.
I am not criticizing your company, Sally.
The status of the fractional industry is very interesting and as Deisel put it curiosity does get the best of us from time to time. The difference I see between those of us at NetJets and a person such as yourself is... well, honestly I dont know why you are the way you are. Be happy at your job. You know what the status of you company is better than we do and we know the status of our job better than you. If someone prints something you think is wrong then simply correct them.
I believe that a few of us from Options have tried to correct or give or insight about it. The naysayers seem to think that they know more about our company than we do. They keep posting that we seem to not know what is going on. That is why I ask why they were so worried what happens to us.
Did I touch a nerve with confronting you with asking why you are so worried about us? That you had to resort to name calling and getting all defensive. Nobody would answer the question so I kept posting it.
They all came up with excuses as why NetJets canceled orders for aircraft. If that happened at Options they are automatically going under. Even if someone says that it is because the economy is in the crapper. We are not believed anyway.
Don't get to comfy in your job today. It could be gone tomorrow as well.
Did I touch a nerve with confronting you with asking why you are so worried about us? That you had to resort to name calling and getting all defensive. Nobody would answer the question so I kept posting it.
They all came up with excuses as why NetJets canceled orders for aircraft. If that happened at Options they are automatically going under. Even if someone says that it is because the economy is in the crapper. We are not believed anyway.
Don't get to comfy in your job today. It could be gone tomorrow as well.
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