Is Eagle a bad choice?

Burt Reynolds

El Bandido
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Posts
170
Total Time
'nuff
I know that everyone says that you shouldn't base your choice on upgrade time, but what about Eagle? I've received an offer to interview, but should I just wait until I have more time and try to get interviews with other carriers that have the domicile that I want (ORD)? I can't seem to get any response from Skywest or Chautauqua... are there others with Chicago domiciles?
 

Willy21

Don't ask
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
522
Total Time
4500
Never turn down an interview. What you are looking fo in a job may not be what everybody else is looking for. If you want to stay at ORD Eagle might be your chance.

About the upgrade time, this industry can change at a moments notice, so if you make your choice only on that you might miss out or you might not. One thing I would advise you on is make a choice based on the possibility of being at whatever place you choose a long time, who knows what will happen in the future. Good luck, go interview, and find what is best for you.
 

BlackPilot628

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Posts
816
Total Time
5000+
Willy21 said:
Never turn down an interview. What you are looking fo in a job may not be what everybody else is looking for. If you want to stay at ORD Eagle might be your chance.

About the upgrade time, this industry can change at a moments notice, so if you make your choice only on that you might miss out or you might not. One thing I would advise you on is make a choice based on the possibility of being at whatever place you choose a long time, who knows what will happen in the future. Good luck, go interview, and find what is best for you.
I agree. Do what right for you. But NEVER EVER turn down an interview!
Good Luck at Eagle
 

Yank McCobb

Song and Dance Man
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Posts
538
Total Time
18000
Who knows, especially with regionals, where the domiciles will be. While it is a pretty good bet Eagle will stay in ORD, can the same be said for SKW or CHQ. Those companies are tied only by their current fee-for-departure arrangement.

Choice of domicile would be somewhat down on the list as far as picking a regional since this could change in the near or not-so-near future. If one thing is certain in this industry it is change.

If you get an interview, go. And go with the intention of getting a job offer. If you get a job offer, THEN you can decide if the situation is right for you. But base your decision on the whole picture which should be painted with as much information as you can possibly get on every single factor of the job and the company.
 

Jet_Driver

"There I was...."
Joined
May 5, 2005
Posts
126
Total Time
enough
Willy21 said:
Never turn down an interview......About the upgrade time, this industry can change at a moments notice....
This guy is right. Never turn down an interview. You should take all the opportunities you can get. Whether you take a job offer at Eagle or some other Regional, you need to do this.

On the subject of Eagle and upgrade time.... The static forecast for upgrade sucks, but as Willy21 said, this industry can change at a moments notice. Corporate america is changing its ideas on retirement. If AA drinks the cool-aid then you might see a mass exodus at AA and all the flowbacks might take a call back. Viola, you have 400+ upgrades at Eagle. Anyway you look at it, it is a gamble. Go where you see stability. CHQ, Skywest, AWACS, Skyway all these guys have shown a lot of instability. All regionals are on a race to the bottom. Go where the stability is. Eagle has that stability. AA won't be selling us any time soon.

ORD is Eagle's biggest crew base. You have a high probobility of getting ORD in the CRJ or ERJ. Eitherway, it will be a jet.

Go for Eagle, and if someone else offers something better in the mean time, go for that instead.
 

ASH

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
296
Total Time
Enough
Oh, yeah CHQ has shown TREMENDOUS instability...good call man.:rolleyes:
 
R

RoyalAviation2

If your trying to get on with SKYW and can't, maybe its your lack of time. Try getting on with Eagle, then with some turbine time, getting on with SKYW. I know its a sideways move, but my friend just quite Eagle after a year because he said it would have taken him 6+ years to upgrade. My other friend has been there since 99 and still hasn't upgraded.
 

Fuzzy_is_Hungry

Burninating the Peasants
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Posts
123
Total Time
1700+
Asking if Eagle is a bad choice is like asking if drinking bleach is a good idea.
 

snap145

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2005
Posts
572
Total Time
5+
wow..that was a pretty random comment....eagle isnt exactly the industrys crap hole ..but i wouldnt call it the best wither..and to say that chautauqua and skywest are unstable???COME ON...noone has shown more growth over the last year than those two carriers your dreamin man...with that being said.....of course you should take the interview..and if you feel you mesh well with the company...go for it...if not keep huntin..this whole thing is about timing
 

Stealthh21

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Posts
308
Total Time
4500
snap145 said:
wow..that was a pretty random comment....eagle isnt exactly the industrys crap hole ..but i wouldnt call it the best wither..and to say that chautauqua and skywest are unstable???COME ON...noone has shown more growth over the last year than those two carriers your dreamin man...with that being said.....of course you should take the interview..and if you feel you mesh well with the company...go for it...if not keep huntin..this whole thing is about timing

Hey now there, I think what he wastrying to say is this. Chautauqua and skywest do all their business with companies who ARE in Chapter 11 or about to file Chapter 11. AA is not about to sell eagle to make some money!!! AA is also in a much healthier situation then most of the mainline carriers. These companies are going to expand to keep up with the demand. As said before the demand in PAX is there. The money however is not!! If Delta were to go out of business all of a sudden, what do you think would happen to all those Chautauqua pilots on the back end of the senority list??? You never know what is going to happen. All we know is what those two companies are doing and have done. Only can hope for the best.

oh well
 

igneousy2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Posts
1,262
Total Time
100+
Stealthh21 said:
AA is not about to sell eagle to make some money!!!
oh well
And you know this how? AMR sold SABRE which was a CASH COW not so many years ago, I think '98. In the 80's Bob Crandall was one meeting away from selling American Airlines and only having SABRE as the mainstay of AMR corp. As far as not selling Eagle, Eagle has been reorganized since 9/11 to facilitate the split. They put the MIA base on the Executive Certificate. Recently they have moved all of the dispatch functions out to San Juan.

Perhaps the Domestic side of Eagle is relatively safe from Sale but the individual pilots are not. If a part of Eagle is sold the pilots would go with the portion that was sold. When Executive was on the verge of being sold back in 2002 the MEC stated that they would insist on a "system flush" if Executive were sold off. A system flush means that every pilot is given the opportunity to rebid based on their seniority without regard to seat locks or any other restrictions. If you are a new hire at Eagle you would be at risk of being sold off with the Executive operation. The orginizational changes that were made would make it very easy to chop executive out of the system.

If you think this is unlikely, consider that in 2002 it had gotten so far as a buyer was announced, a CEO was named, Executive Airline emplyee travel benefits on AA were layed out in writing...it was very close. The deal was scrapped at the last minute.

If you don't have much flight time I would say go to Eagle as you don't really have much too loose. If you get a better offer..."EASY VICTOR, EASY VICTOR, EASY VICTOR!"

Later
 
Last edited:

CitationLover

Aw, Nuts!
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Posts
3,316
Total Time
1500+
snap145 said:
wow..that was a pretty random comment....eagle isnt exactly the industrys crap hole ..but i wouldnt call it the best wither..and to say that chautauqua and skywest are unstable???COME ON...noone has shown more growth over the last year than those two carriers your dreamin man...with that being said.....of course you should take the interview..and if you feel you mesh well with the company...go for it...if not keep huntin..this whole thing is about timing
your argument regarding growth can throw in mesa into the mix (as they will have an ORD base soon). wanna go there? i hear they treat their employees well.
 

avrodriver

************
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Posts
415
Total Time
>1
I agree with the fact that all because a company has shown alot of growth it does not make it a "stable", safe place to work. Look at airlines like ACA and Air Wis.....both had large fleets in place with the UAX sytem with potentially no other place to put airplanes and United decided to give them the squeeze. History repeats itself over and over again with United....they will squeeze again and either these companies will "show them the money (possibly your money)" or be replaced. Delta has shown just about the same behavior...again two carriers that both CHQ and Skywest do business with.

Airlines such as COEX, Eagle (aside from this Trans States/CHQ AA Connection swindle), and Pinnacle / Mesaba I would consider a much more "stable" place to work because of the language (yes I know it's slowly being picked at though) securing thier place in thier partner carriers system.

Good for you for giving Eagle a look.....it may not be as exciting as other places are right now to work.....but look at the last 4 years....things change. FAST!

Good Luck. AD!
 
Last edited:

Stealthh21

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Posts
308
Total Time
4500
igneousy2 said:
And you know this how? AMR sold SABRE which was a CASH COW not so many years ago, I think '98. In the 80's Bob Crandall was one meeting away from selling American Airlines and only having SABRE as the mainstay of AMR corp. As far as not selling Eagle, Eagle has been reorganized since 9/11 to facilitate the split. They put the MIA base on the Executive Certificate. Recently they have moved all of the dispatch functions out to San Juan.

Perhaps the Domestic side of Eagle is relatively safe from Sale but the individual pilots are not. If a part of Eagle is sold the pilots would go with the portion that was sold. When Executive was on the verge of being sold back in 2002 the MEC stated that they would insist on a "system flush" if Executive were sold off. A system flush means that every pilot is given the opportunity to rebid based on their seniority without regard to seat locks or any other restrictions. If you are a new hire at Eagle you would be at risk of being sold off with the Executive operation. The orginizational changes that were made would make it very easy to chop executive out of the system.

If you think this is unlikely, consider that in 2002 it had gotten so far as a buyer was announced, a CEO was named, Executive Airline emplyee travel benefits on AA were layed out in writing...it was very close. The deal was scrapped at the last minute.

OK

Anyway, my main point was that just because there is rapid growth and alot of pilot hiring doesn't make an airline stable.

Though the company is poised to sell, I would make a guess that most companies are like that. Ready for a fast sell off if the Sh&T hits the fan!!!

If USAirways goes under, what regional carriers do you think are going to suffer the most???? What will happen if USAirways merges with America West? What regionals will be affected???? hummmmm I don't think Mesa will be one of them? Alot of RJs out there with USAirways paint on them!!!

Hope everything works out for the better!!!

Safe flying all!!
 

Weasil

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2003
Posts
752
Total Time
7000
Stealthh21 said:
OK



If USAirways goes under, what regional carriers do you think are going to suffer the most???? What will happen if USAirways merges with America West? What regionals will be affected???? hummmmm I don't think Mesa will be one of them? Alot of RJs out there with USAirways paint on them!!!



Safe flying all!!
Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion considering the fact that a lot of Mesa flying is already being transferred to Air Wisconsin. Why do you think Mesa are flying for united and DL now. they had to do something with the airplanes they are no longer flying for US. You watch... as PSA moves most of their flying to CLT (US Air's biggest hub) Mesa will no longer be needed there either... with the exception of their 900s which are going to replace some 737 flying I think.
 

LAXSaabdude

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Posts
431
Total Time
15K +
Willy21 said:
About the upgrade time, this industry can change at a moments notice, so if you make your choice only on that you might miss out or you might not.
Excellent advice. Another way to look at it - Would you buy Google stock today, automatically assuming you will make a fortune? After all, it skyrocketed after the IPO, so therefore, it MUST CONTINUE to skyrocket, right? Trying to pick an airline based on today's upgrade time is sort of the same way. In reality, though, the best time to get on with an airline with a fast upgrade is to already be there before it happens (or get hired as a captain off the street).
One thing I would advise you on is make a choice based on the possibility of being at whatever place you choose a long time, who knows what will happen in the future. Good luck, go interview, and find what is best for you.
Look at crew bases, workrules, and pay. If you can live with that, as a captain or an FO, go for it.

LAXSaabdude.
 

Burt Reynolds

El Bandido
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Posts
170
Total Time
'nuff
Anybody know where to get ahold of an AE contract? Or what their pay scales are other than the hourly rate?
 

RocketDog

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Posts
23
Total Time
11,000
From where I'm standing - go with the company that has a crew base where you want to live (i.e. - no commuting). I've lost two jobs now, one at the regional level, and one at the majors - both due to the instability of this industry. The lesson I have learned is that there is no such thing as "stability". Additionally, some contracts are better than others but in my opinion, when you factor in all the work rules, pay scales, etc. we are all pretty much in the same ballpark here at the regionals. Any company can turn on a dime, either for better or worse, so go where you want to live, and enjoy the ride. Good luck to you!
 

CitationLover

Aw, Nuts!
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Posts
3,316
Total Time
1500+
Burt Reynolds said:
Anybody know where to get ahold of an AE contract? Or what their pay scales are other than the hourly rate?
here you go:

Section 3

COMPENSATION

A. CAPTAINS PAY:

1. Captains will be credited for all flights which are actually flown

applying the following hourly applicable rates of pay for scheduled

or actual hours flown, whichever is greater, on a leg by leg basis

(block-to-block) as follows:

Yrs

of

Svc

20-39

Seat

Turboprop

40-59

Seat

Turboprop

60-70

Seat

Turboprop

92% of

50-59

Seat

Turbojet

96.3% of

50-59

Seat

Turbojet

50-59

Seat

Turbojet

60-70

Seat

Turbojet

1 $39.42 $48.32 $55.32 $53.01 $55.49 $57.62 $60.65

2 $42.36 $52.45 $59.45 $54.59 $57.14 $59.34 $62.45

3 $44.00 $53.83 $60.83 $56.24 $58.87 $61.13 $64.33

4 $46.60 $55.20 $62.20 $57.91 $60.62 $62.95 $66.28

5 $48.38 $56.60 $63.60 $59.65 $62.44 $64.84 $68.23

6 $51.33 $57.97 $64.97 $61.46 $64.33 $66.80 $70.31

7 $52.86 $59.36 $66.36 $62.68 $65.61 $68.13 $71.70

8 $54.57 $60.74 $67.74 $64.55 $67.56 $70.16 $73.85

9 $56.45 $62.12 $69.12 $66.49 $69.60 $72.27 $76.07

10 $57.84 $63.49 $70.49 $68.48 $71.69 $74.44 $78.34

11 $59.40 $65.07 $72.07 $70.54 $73.83 $76.67 $80.69

12 $60.61 $67.33 $74.33 $72.65 $76.05 $78.97 $83.11

13 $61.81 $67.62 $74.62 $74.85 $78.35 $81.36 $85.63

14 $63.58 $69.01 $76.01 $77.08 $80.68 $83.78 $88.18

15 $65.55 $70.41 $77.41 $78.39 $82.06 $85.21 $89.66

*16 --- $71.80 $78.80 $79.94 $83.68 $86.89 $91.47

*17 --- $72.89 $79.89 $81.13 $84.93 $88.19 $92.83

*18 --- $73.61 $80.61 $82.37 $86.22 $89.53 $94.24

B. FIRST OFFICER PAY

1. First Officers will be credited for all flights which are actually flown

applying the following hourly applicable rates of pay for scheduled

or actual hours flown, whichever is greater, on a leg by leg basis

(block-to-block) as follows:

Yrs

of

Svc

All

Turboprop

All

Turbojet

1 $22.89 $22.89

2 $24.61 $30.93

3 $27.41 $33.58

4 $30.23 $35.25

5 $31.64 $36.14

6 $33.04 $36.75

7 $33.47 $37.22

8 $34.00 $37.85

2. First Officers Rate Freeze.

a. A First Officer who is at pay step 6 or lower and does not bid

a Captain upgrade in his domicile which his seniority would

allow him to hold, will not receive longevity increases beyond

year six (6). Such First Officer will continue to receive

annual IAI adjustments.

b. A First Officer who is above pay step 6, or is grandfathered

in accordance with Letter number 7, and does not bid a

Captain upgrade in his domicile which his seniority would

allow him to hold, will not receive further longevity increases.

Such First Officer will continue to receive annual IAI

adjustments.

C. MINIMUM MONTHLY PAY GUARANTEE

1. Regular, Relief, and Composite Lineholders

A pilot awarded a regular, relief, or composite bid line who is

available for duty for a full month will be paid flight pay at the

applicable hourly rate for a minimum of seventy-two (72) hours. In

the event such pilot is unavailable for duty for a portion of a month,

his guarantee for that month will be prorated.

2. Reserve Pilots

A reserve pilot who is available for duty for a full month will be

guaranteed a minimum of seventy-five (75) hours of flight pay at the

applicable hourly rate. In the event a pilot is unavailable for duty for

a portion of a month, his guarantee for that month will be prorated.

a. Effective 1-1-05, ATR reserve pilots will be paid a

base rate of 75 hours at the 60-70 seat turboprop rate

in the current month. Any actual hours flown on the

ATR-42 will be adjusted in the subsequent month.

3. Composite Lineholder

Whenever a composite lineholder is scheduled for a reserve duty

day, he will be paid the greater of three and three quarter hours

(3.75), (three hours and forty-five (3:45) minutes) or the actual

hours flown that day.

4. For 60-70 seat turboprop Captains, the applicable hourly rate for

pay purposes other than hours actually flown, including, but not

limited to vacation, sick leave, training, etc., will be the 60-70 seat

pay rate.

D. VALUE OF THE DAY

1. Regular, Relief, and Composite Lineholders

Except as provided for in paragraph D. 3., below, whenever a

regular, relief, or composite lineholder is entitled to a daily pay

credit, he will receive three point six (3.6) hours (three hours and

thirty-six (3:36) minutes.

2. Reserve Pilots

Whenever a pilot assigned to reserve is entitled to a daily pay

credit, he will receive three and three quarter (3.75) hours (three

hours and forty-five (3:45) minutes).

3. Composite Lineholders

Whenever a pilot awarded a composite line of time which has a

reserve duty day is entitled to a daily pay credit, he will receive

three and three quarter (3.75) hours (three hours and forty-five

(3:45) minutes) for such reserve day(s).

E. CANCELLATION CREDIT/ADJUSTED GUARANTEE

1. A pilot who is available for duty for a full month and is awarded a

regular, relief, or composite bid line will be guaranteed one hundred

percent (100%) of the scheduled flight hours awarded on his final

bid line award,

a. Including:

(1) any awarded open time (OT),

(2) any time added due to reassignment or rescheduling,

(3) any junior manning assignment (JM).

b. Deducting:

(1) a trip trade of less flight time value than the pilot’s

original trip,

(2) any trip sequence drops, or portions thereof,

(3) any trip(s) missed due to illness or non-occupational

injury where the pilot has no accrued paid sick time

available,

(4) any missed assignments (MA),

(5) any flight canceled due to a Captain’s rejection of an

aircraft for a deferrable MEL item.

(6) any flight hours displaced from or lost when a

reassignment is declined except for reassignments

pursuant to Section 11 E.1.d.

2. Application of Cancellation Credit

Pilots who have flights canceled will be paid the greater of:

a. The minimum monthly guarantee, or

b. The adjusted guarantee as defined in paragraph 1, above, or

c. The flight hours flown during the month.
 

Stealthh21

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Posts
308
Total Time
4500
Weasil said:
Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion considering the fact that a lot of Mesa flying is already being transferred to Air Wisconsin. Why do you think Mesa are flying for united and DL now. they had to do something with the airplanes they are no longer flying for US. You watch... as PSA moves most of their flying to CLT (US Air's biggest hub) Mesa will no longer be needed there either... with the exception of their 900s which are going to replace some 737 flying I think.
I came to that conclusion because if America West and USAirways merges, so far from what I have heard is that America West is the domint carrier and is the one buying USAirways. Mesa is big time with America West??? So you could say that the new airline will be America West with USAirways name. what will happen to PSA then??? You think they will dump Mesa? I dont really know I am asking you. There is no telling what so ever is going to happen. But there is a bigger picture here to look at. Major scenery changes are in the works.


Anyway you have read one thing I have read another. Probably talked to different people who believe different things. This industry is made up of mostly "mights" and "probablys" and "rumors". Just giving my imput here. I know a guy who got on with eagle, hated it, then got on with Air Wisconsin, hates it! But he might just be bitter. Every company has its bad points. but......DONT TURN DOWN AN INTERVIEW!!!!

stealthh
 
Top