Is a pilot worth anything without a degree?

[Jpilot23]

I've been wondering this question throughout all the years I’ve been in aviation, 5. To succeed in aviation, (which to me means I’m flying, with a good company, and in something fast) will I need a degree? When I was young and stupid I thought I was lucky enough to get by in this line of work without one. Now growing older I see that I may have been mistaken.

I'm approaching 1000 hours with almost 200 multi. I’m making plans to go back and finish the classes i need for a 2 year degree (I only have 2, both math). So what if I fail? Does that mean that I will be stuck somewhere i don't want to be does that mean I’ll never get a chance to be a captain of a turbojet aircraft making over 50,000/yr. I usually try not to display my ignorance, especially in front of pilots, but I’m getting tired of debating these things in my head, i would like some other professional advice. Thanks all

 

[CaptainMark]

hey dude..suck it up and finish your degree...you can get a job at the commuters without one and some corporations who feel that without one u won't leave for the majors...my best advice to you is to continue your education(if u have the means of course) and get the degree...it will pay dividends in the future...good luck!

 

[FN FAL]

To succeed in aviation, (which to me means I’m flying, with a good company, and in something fast)

Pinnacle is a good company and you can make 50K a year flying as captain for them, don't waste your time writing college papers when you can be "zoom zoom zoom" over at Pinnacle.

 

[pilotyip]

college not needed until the end

My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. Air Inc advertises that 172 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now; I only see four that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the ‘College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 168 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do.

 

[FerrisBueller]

I’m getting tired of debating these things in my head.

Go with your instincts. Life is a pretty good journey if you put yourself in the position to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves. You've probably heard that expression -- too soon old, too late smart?

All I can say is school only gets harder the longer you stay away from it.

 

[Twisted Mind]

I think you are asking the wrong question! You should rephrase the question by dropping the “with out college” part. If you don't want to become a chief pilot and are happy as a line pilot. I say no degree is required. It should not be required or preferred. I actually think that flight schools should be classed and operated like tech schools. But that is just me.

 

[FN FAL]

All I can say is school only gets harder the longer you stay away from it.

Maybe for some people. I had to take Basic Algebra twice back when I was doing my AA degree back in the early 80's. Flunked it the first time and passed with D- the second time.

I was nervous going into College Math I and II last year, but I got an A in I and a B+ in II.

It all depends on the person.

 

[pilotyip]

FN, that is an example of grade inflation

 

[Magic1872]

Look at it this way...is the 4 year degree going to hurt you? NO, it can only help. Plus your never to old to stop learning.

 

[FN FAL]

FN, that is an example of grade inflation

You can call it what you wan't, I'll call it ten weeks of being glued to a compter, ten lectures and the math lab.

I lost 10 lbs during those 10 weeks while sitting in a chair during every free hour I had. Don't try that at home.

 

[Draginass]

If that's all you aspire to is a $50k a year job flying for a regional, then I'm not sure college is necessary. Also, I don't think 2 year "associates' degrees" impress anyone. If you aspire to a major airline, a 4 year degree is almost mandatory to be competitive.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Look at it this way...is the 4 year degree going to hurt you? NO, it can only help. Plus your never to old to stop learning.

In my humble opinion, I went to a great school with an awesome flight program. I had a great time, got all my licensing, and learned a lot along the way. Would I do it again? Never!

Now I'm $80,000 in debt and competing for the same jobs as 19 year old kids who got their licensing in a Champ at the local FBO.

Ultimately hours is all that matters. Sure there are some 300hr wonders who got lucky. More power to them, but If I had it to do over again, I would have gone and flown the champ at the local FBO. Then, maybe while I fly at a regional I'd do a correspondence deal.

Does my four year degree hurt me? Only on the fifteenth of every month for the next 30 years.

 

[FN FAL]

In my humble opinion, I went to a great school with an awesome flight program. I had a great time, got all my licensing, and learned a lot along the way. Would I do it again? Never!

Now I'm $80,000 in debt and competing for the same jobs as 19 year old kids who got their licensing in a Champ at the local FBO.

Ultimately hours is all that matters. Sure there are some 300hr wonders who got lucky. More power to them, but If I had it to do over again, I would have gone and flown the champ at the local FBO. Then, maybe while I fly at a regional I'd do a correspondence deal.

Does my four year degree hurt me? Only on the fifteenth of every month for the next 30 years.

What's your flight hours of PIC time J.C.?

 

[Windsor]

In my humble opinion, I went to a great school with an awesome flight program. I had a great time, got all my licensing, and learned a lot along the way. Would I do it again? Never!

Now I'm $80,000 in debt and competing for the same jobs as 19 year old kids who got their licensing in a Champ at the local FBO.

Ultimately hours is all that matters. Sure there are some 300hr wonders who got lucky. More power to them, but If I had it to do over again, I would have gone and flown the champ at the local FBO. Then, maybe while I fly at a regional I'd do a correspondence deal.

Does my four year degree hurt me? Only on the fifteenth of every month for the next 30 years.

You said it. I totally agree. If you have a hard on for the regionals and want to get hired with 500hrs then a flight university or PFTing is the way to go. Otherwise, get your degree on the side and build your flight hours full time. Nobody looks at a resume and decides to call you based on your degree, its a part of it, but they are looking at flight times and expierence first.

 

[RefugePilot]

The janitor at my junior high school had a college degree. It is something that has stuck with me. Two resumes in front of you one person has a 4 year degree listed under education, who are you going to hire?

Get a degree, any degree, from any school. In the real world a college degree, gets you an interview. In this world hours get you an interview, nothing is more important than hours.

The same 2 resumes scenario now applying as pilots, who is going to get hired? It's obvious, the pilot who knows people at the company he's applying with. All things being equal, the 4 year degree will help make the difference in comparing two similar applicants, and may very well be a requirement for somewhere you might like to work for in the future.

Definitely get your AA and work on your 4 year degree as you can. Think on-line classes.

 

[pilotyip]

Hours make the difference

You are not limited to $50K/yr in an RJ without a degree. I know over a dozen pilots without degree making close to $100K/yr. I Think I see some agreement that the hours get you the job, the more quality the hours the better the chance. However doing the degree on the side never hurts. If you want to be a pilot you fly airplanes and within 10 years you will have career position.

 

[inline]

If that's all you aspire to is a $50k a year job flying for a regional, then I'm not sure college is necessary. Also, I don't think 2 year "associates' degrees" impress anyone. If you aspire to a major airline, a 4 year degree is almost mandatory to be competitive.

Actually, no degree impresses: Atlas, Usa Jet, Spirit, Kalitta Air and Gemini to name a few. And since all the majors have taken massive pay cuts (with the exception of FedEx, Abx and UPS) you can make the same money with a non-major.

 

[27 driver]

If that's all you aspire to is a $50k a year job flying for a regional, then I'm not sure college is necessary. Also, I don't think 2 year "associates' degrees" impress anyone. If you aspire to a major airline, a 4 year degree is almost mandatory to be competitive.

I have to agree with Draginass. You need to set the bar a little higher than 50K. That is not that much money these days. I too am back in school after a 13 year break. I got my AS many years ago and am working on my BS. I make about 80K now and it doesn't seem like much anymore. Some say you can get a good job without a BS degree, but your chances are slim. Suck it up and finish the 2 classes.

 

[tracearabians]

I agree with CaptainMark ! Get your degree if for no other purpose but to have something to fall back on if you lose your medical.

I've been wondering this question throughout all the years I’ve been in aviation, 5. To succeed in aviation, (which to me means I’m flying, with a good company, and in something fast) will I need a degree? When I was young and stupid I thought I was lucky enough to get by in this line of work without one. Now growing older I see that I may have been mistaken.

I'm approaching 1000 hours with almost 200 multi. I’m making plans to go back and finish the classes i need for a 2 year degree (I only have 2, both math). So what if I fail? Does that mean that I will be stuck somewhere i don't want to be does that mean I’ll never get a chance to be a captain of a turbojet aircraft making over 50,000/yr. I usually try not to display my ignorance, especially in front of pilots, but I’m getting tired of debating these things in my head, i would like some other professional advice. Thanks all

 

[pilotyip]

Fall back value of degree overrated

You have to decide on what you want to be a college graduate or a pilot. If is a pilot, you fly airplanes and build resume stuff. It will take approximately 10 years to get to a career position in aviation. You have to commit to the time frame to make it. If you elect after 5 years to get out of flyign to pursue your major in college, you will be five years behind that year's college grads. To not fly and get a degree may be fun but it does nothing for your flying career. Now to get a degree on the side while you are flying, nothing wrong with that. However, the fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

 

[apu]

Have to say, this "fall back" argument is a little silly. Think about it, who is going to hire a guy with even an MBA that hasn't been used in 14 years? An old degree is as useless as no degree. Don't count on that "fall" to be short.

 

[pilotyip]

well said APU

 

[CaptainMark]

Why Does a College Degree Matter?
I get a lot of email from interested individuals asking about if they can get hired by a major airline without a degree but with quality flight experience. Well, the short answer is that if XYZ Airlines wanted to hire 500 pilots and didn't specify anything other than requiring the applicant to have a commercial pilot certificate or ATP rating, they would probably recieve at least 25,000 applications from interested pilots.
By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". I'm not saying that pilots with degrees are any better or worse than pilots without, but obtaining a college degree can be a whole lot easier than making it to the cockpit.
A college degree also should matter to you on a personal level. In 2001, the industry saw a lot of pilot furloughs where they were temporarily laid off and had to pursue other employment. Now if you have no skills or education apart from what you learned while attaining your certificates and ratings and you're not able to find a flying job, you'll be hard pressed to maintain your quality of life and continue to feed your family. If you want to keep all of your options open in the airline industry, get a degree

 

[Draginass]

Can you succeed in aviation without a degree? YES

Is it more difficult to get the better jobs? YES

Does a 4 yr degreee make you more competitive to get an interview at the better airlines? YES

Will most of your contemporary competitors for jobs have just as good of skills as you, and will have 4 yr degrees also. YES

If you were a recruiter and had two individuals with roughly equal skills and experience, yet one had a 4 yr degree and the other didn't, which one would you choose? The individual with the 4 yr degree.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Have to say, this "fall back" argument is a little silly. Think about it, who is going to hire a guy with even an MBA that hasn't been used in 14 years? An old degree is as useless as no degree. Don't count on that "fall" to be short.

100% wrong.

An old degree is A DEGREE nontheless.

NO DEGREE makes you look like a GED or high school graduate. Better bank on flying car $hit for YIP until the automakers slow down and you take your seasonal layoff. Then his brother can hire you to work in his muffler shop. What a joy.

Its 2006 folks. A 4 yr degree is what a high school diploma used to be. Its the baseline.

Cant believe this argument still takes place!

and yeah, I know Bill gates didnt finish college. Wake up, you aren't Bill Gates, you're just a dumba$$ pilot.


:erm:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why Does a College Degree Matter?
I get a lot of email from interested individuals asking about if they can get hired by a major airline without a degree but with quality flight experience. Well, the short answer is that if XYZ Airlines wanted to hire 500 pilots and didn't specify anything other than requiring the applicant to have a commercial pilot certificate or ATP rating, they would probably recieve at least 25,000 applications from interested pilots.
By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". I'm not saying that pilots with degrees are any better or worse than pilots without, but obtaining a college degree can be a whole lot easier than making it to the cockpit.
A college degree also should matter to you on a personal level. In 2001, the industry saw a lot of pilot furloughs where they were temporarily laid off and had to pursue other employment. Now if you have no skills or education apart from what you learned while attaining your certificates and ratings and you're not able to find a flying job, you'll be hard pressed to maintain your quality of life and continue to feed your family. If you want to keep all of your options open in the airline industry, get a degree

read this again, very well said.

You can shoot for the best jobs or you can settle for the $hit.

The choice is yours

 

[pilotyip]

Ged?

Dragin, they won't be equal. At 25 the college grad has 1000 TT, 35 MEL and a 4 yr degee. The 25 yr old non-degreed guy has 5000 TT, 3500 MEL, 2000 TJ, a jet type and 1000 TJ PIC. At age 25 which guy gets hired? Only shallow people who are really not sure of themselves judge other people by the degrees they hold. BTW G200 So someone with a 2-yr dgree from a community college, an avionics repair license and 4 years working as an AT-2 an EA-6B's is the same as GED, is that what you are telling us? Only 4-yr degree people have any worth as a huuman being?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

. BTW G200 So someone with a 2-yr dgree from a community college, an avionics repair license and 4 years working as an AT-2 an EA-6B's is the same as GED, is that what you are telling us? Only 4-yr degree people have any worth as a huuman being?

Yup. thats EXACTLY what I am telling you.

A GED and some aviation experience is completly useless if you have to find employment outside the cockpit. On paper you are the same as the average Mcdonalds counter help -- a high school grad. Face reality, how do you know at 25 that you will want/be able to fly airplanes for the next 40 years? I hope I dont. That would be very boring. (just an opinion)

At least with a degree (even an old one) you can spruce up a resume to look elsewhere. Put all that stupid repair license AT2 EA6B, 5000TT turbine PIC blah blah bull$hit you want on a resume and the employer will be left looking for one thing ---

your degree.

then comes the excuses....

whats next? most likely -- "dont call us we will call you".

that is honestly how I see todays marketplace. Only a fool enters unprepared and a 4 yr degree is baseline today. Just reality IMHO.

You are truly showing your era and age by thinking this "Turbine PIC" thing is the golden road. Its just not so anymore. Thats just another requirement to be checked off on the application laundry list, AFTER the degree.

YMMV.

 

[Jpilot23]

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure that there are some people in aviation who have gotten by without a degree. and i'm sure they're some who have fallen on their face. I basically see college as big hoops to jump through, and employers probably see them that way as well. They want to see if they (employers) say jump you ask how high. I see the value of a degree, but i just don't think a man/woman should be defined by a piece of paper. I know tons of people how got drunk almost every night, and went to class and barely past all of their classes. But hey they still have a degree. They may have showed up late, cheated, blah blah whatever, but they still passed and still have a degree.

and i think in most cases those bad habits will carry over in the workforce. maybe not at first when you have that new shiny job you go to, but when it turns into WORK. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that getting a degree is foolish or anything like that. what i'm saying is that it saddens me that people in this world are defined by a piece of paper. Anyway, i am going back to get my degree. I'm actually excited about it b/c i'm sure i'll be able to focus and still get a great deal of flying in b/c of my instructor certificates.

Another thing i will say before people say i've set my goals to low, or this and that. I got into, and i'm still in aviation b/c i want to wake up and go to a job i ENJOY. Money is an issue for me but its not the #1. As long as i'm happy in a job and i'm not starving, i will probably be happy. But to each his/her own.

Again thank you so much for posting your advice.

 

[Metro752]

How about the morons with 4 year degrees that are intimidated by washing machines?