Is a cub something for poor people?

[Snakum]

You've pee'd in my cornflakes ... I am heartbroken, and my dreams of packing up the GF and a tent in a C140 and slipping away for the weekend have been dashed.

Seriously though ... I didn't know that. Not knowing alot about ceconite v.s. aluminum, I always thought the weight difference was negligable. By the way, just to be sure, when I read "metalized" wings, are they merely talking about recovering them with aluminum, or is there another process I'm not aware of? And lastly, I have read that the all-rag C120 has a higher useful load than the C140, but would this be offset by having a basic electric system and panel? Any other 'gotchas' on either?

Assuming I'm instructing by next Summer and not still footing the bill for my own air-time, I am seriously considering taking the plunge for a small tail-dragger if things at my regular job work out as planned. The GF thinks it'd be cool to go camping that way, but a C170 is out of my price-range. Suggestions?

Danke ...

Minh

 

[FN FAL]

I've been thinking as I'm about to celebrate my third year of unemployment that I'd like to have a cub someday. I've never flown a taildragger of any kind but I just keep having this thought that if I got the chance to own an aircraft that is what I would want. Flying around with the door off about 50 ft over the trees dropping water ballons on folks...j/k. I don't see myself ever making tons of money so can poor folks own and operate a cub or should I think about something else? It will be a long while before anything transpires I'm just curious. Maybe it will leave my brain if I talk about it.

A buddy of mine had a cub and it went in for annual, 7,000 dollars later he gets it out and tells me he flew it 10 hours last year. So I had to ask him how he was planning to get his operational costs below 700 bucks an hour...

 

[weekendwarrior]

You've pee'd in my cornflakes ... I am heartbroken, and my dreams of packing up the GF and a tent in a C140 and slipping away for the weekend have been dashed.

Seriously though ... I didn't know that. Not knowing alot about ceconite v.s. aluminum, I always thought the weight difference was negligable. By the way, just to be sure, when I read "metalized" wings, are they merely talking about recovering them with aluminum, or is there another process I'm not aware of? And lastly, I have read that the all-rag C120 has a higher useful load than the C140, but would this be offset by having a basic electric system and panel? Any other 'gotchas' on either?



Minh

I think there is just more than recovering with alluminum. Not completely sure, but I think there are supporting ribs that need to be added. Nevertheless, there is a weight penalty (again not sure of the weight, but it's probably 100 pounds or so). The only difference in the 120 and the 140 is that 140 has flaps. Both can have a full panel and electrical systems.

You can also fly with less fuel if you need to. With full fuel and two descent size people, you can be at GW (and that's in a rag wing!).

Make sure you get one that has the alternator STC. The old generators are a pain I hear. Also, ensure that the cylinder valve guides have been cleaned out recently, or a fresh top end. The C-85 is notorious for stuck valves if not properly cared for. Marvel Mystery Oil is the care for that one, but that's an uncertified technique, although most 140 owners use it.

Ensure the fuel selector turns freely. They stick every few years, and it's a pain to replace them.

Join the Cessna 140 association. Lots of great people there and information. You could find someone locally that can help you with a pre inspection on one. They know all the little skeletons. For the most part, it is a very reliable, cheap, and fun aircraft to fly. But just like all aircraft, there are specific things to look for.

 

[Snakum]

Thanks for the info, I'm adding that to my 'gotchas' document I keep in MS Word.

If we do, indeed, get to the point we could start looking for one in earnest I plan to be as prepared and as knowledgable as humanly possible. The old saying about renting v.s. buying the 'three Fs' keeps haunting me. A ten-year loan on a nice, low-time, O-200 conversion is probably do'able, or will be next year. However, coming out of an annual with an unexpected $5,000 bill would break me instantly. So, while I fully understand this is not an uncommon event in airplane ownership, I want to do everything possible to ensure the 'surprises' are few and far between.

Thanks again ...

Minh

 

[surplus1]

I think boats and airplanes have a lot in common. Neither one is for people who classify themselves as "poor".

Try this test. Get a stack of 50 $10 bills and place them neatly on the top of your commode tank. Each time you vist the "john" pick one up and throw it in the bowl before you pull the flush lever. Do this until the stack is gone. If you are still comfortable when its over, you can probably afford something in the Cub category.

A Super Cub is a thing of beauty. If that's too much, think of a PA-11. It's a J-3 that you can solo from the front seat and the cowling does a lot for appearance. Tailwheels bring the fun back to flying.

 

[FN FAL]

I think boats and airplanes have a lot in common. Neither one is for people who classify themselves as "poor".

Try this test. Get a stack of 50 $10 bills and place them neatly on the top of your commode tank. Each time you vist the "john" pick one up and throw it in the bowl before you pull the flush lever. Do this until the stack is gone. If you are still comfortable when its over, you can probably afford something in the Cub category.

I like that analogy.

Having been a partner with a couple of skeezy skeezers in a 300 series turbocharged Cessna twin, I know the feeling very well. It's very similar and just a matter of scale, but owning a twin with a couple of time building criminal psychopaths, is like wearing a good diamond ring, gold chain, rolex and wallet full of money into a dark alley and the friends you are walking with into the alley decide to mug you.

So you do this same scenario over and over again and when it starts to bother you, you round house one of your buddys as you walk into the alley expecting to get robbed, knocking his front teeth out. He then looks at you while he spits blood on the sidewalk and then says, "what the hell did you do that for you sumbitch?!!?"... then he sues you.

That's what that partnering with a couple of hinky bastages on a piston twin is like. So maybe even the Cubbie idea is a pretty good one, even if your on a budget...so long as you don't have partners to worry about.

 

[sky37d]

wow,good thing I don't have a partner.

Always thought that would be a difficult arrangement, obviously it has been for you.

 

[FN FAL]

wow,good thing I don't have a partner.

Always thought that would be a difficult arrangement, obviously it has been for you.

If done properly, It can come out pretty good. you got to start out with people in your partnership you won't miss, that way if the thing goes tits up, it won't bother you if you aren't on speaking terms with them anymore.

The real clencher two weeks after I bought this one Jackalope out, so I could get him out of my hair so I focus on the other joker...I go down to the airport to get the plane pulled out of the FBO hangar and the guy I bought out had it pulled out and him two big freaking green bay packer players are getting into it.

You should have seen the look on their faces when I told them to get fu<k off of my plane.

My ex partner begged me to let him take this trip for an hour after that besides...his logic was that the other criminal partner said he could do it...cause the insurance still covered him. (somehow they thought if the trip was kind of like a 135 trip, they still had insurance coverage...losers)

You buy a twin with time builders, you will lose five years of your life. If not 7.

I'm still waiting for the remaining and last partner to pay his bill like a man...and so is the bank.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Here's a cheap way to build multi time. With the right mods, you can build multi turbine as well.



http://www.flight.cz/cricri/english/index.php

Is that available with a Dash 10 conversion?

 

[avbug]

Three years of unemployment? Three years? Rather than try to find an airplane on unemployment...how about finding a job??

 

[rumpletumbler]

Three years of unemployment? Three years? Rather than try to find an airplane on unemployment...how about finding a job??

I'm not drawing unemployment. I'm not trying to find an airplane. If you will read the original post I think you will see that it was just a question and not what you perceive. Thanks for the slam.

 

[avbug]

I've been thinking as I'm about to celebrate my third year of unemployment that I'd like to have a cub someday...I don't see myself ever making tons of money so can poor folks own and operate a cub or should I think about something else?

What is it I perceive, then? That you have been unemployed for three years? That you are poor? Or that you have no conventional gear experience? You seem to know what I am thinking. I can only go by what you posted.

Broke is a temporary condition. Poor is a state of mind.

I'm not drawing unemployment.

I said nothing of unemployment. Apparently it is an issue about which you are sensitive.

Thanks for the slam.

A direct response to your quote, a part of which I have quoted herein. You stated you are celebrating your third year of unemployment, I suggested that before considering more assets, you find employment. And to you that is a slam how?

You're welcome.

Calm down.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I said nothing of unemployment. Apparently it is an issue about which you are sensitive.

You said......

Three years of unemployment? Three years? Rather than try to find an airplane on unemployment...how about finding a job??

No, I can't read your mind. It "seems" though from you comments that you are suggesting that for me to be unemployed for three years it is by choice rather than because I am unable to find work. I am where I am because of bad choices I have made in the past and so yes it is somewhat a sensitive subject. I have worked odd jobs during that time but nothing that has brought in much income and certainly nothing that would be considered a career job. That is not by choice. In that three years I have tried to get back into aviation after a long hiatus by getting a student loan (which I now can't pay) and getting my CFI. Then I found out it was virutally impossible to get a job teaching without the CFII. Another bad choice. My CFI comes up for renewal in about a month and I've not flown since my CFI checkride. In addition to that I've been prescribed a medication now that I pretty sure can't be gotten around on the disqualifying side were I to be able to get a job teaching but in no way would impair my ability to fly or teach. So at 43 years old and with two career choices IT and a pilot being down the toilet so to speak...without college...three children and a wife to support I'm looking at most likely a complete career change without training. It does have a tendency to get me down at times. I'm not whining just sharing some information. It is easy to get to the place where I feel like I've thrown my whole life away through bad choices (the talent that was buried) and have not much hope of doing what I love again. If so it will be my fault and I certainly take responsiblity for it although it doesn't lessen the discomfort. So...I'm sorry I snapped at you.

 

[ThomasR]

rumpletumbler

Hey, Tumbleweed [term of endearment];

Cheer up, it's not your fault. Choices are choices, some work out some don't. I hope the other parts of your life are kicking into gear to compensate. I never thought I'd have to change diapers, cook three meals a day and be available sexually to keep my wife motivated doing a job she didn't much like. But, you got to do what you got to do.

Economy is kicking every bodies ass. I grew up in a family earning a mid to upper mid income. I am at the very lowest end of that scale at the moment and it has been much more than just a moment. If it was not for this forum I might go nuts. But I have the education, experience and motivation to climb back out when the opportunities arise. You have to keep a positive outlook regardless of what is happening or you will be in another place when the opportunities become available. You won't be in a mind to recognize them.

Even though you can see your goal sometimes you have to take a side route to get there or many side routes. The idea is to keep your dreams and goals in sight and keep working. You still have a family on your side. I lost everything so I know what you are feeling. Work to strength the things you have and don't worry about what you don't have.