Intoxicated US pilot pulled from cockpit in Netherlands

[Dornier 335]

I know for a fact that the ones used in DOT testing have to be calibrated. I am sure that they do the same over there. If the machine was not calibrated correctly then the person get off.

Interesting. Why then is there so much controversy about the breathalyzers? Several doctors have told me that the only accurate measurement comes from a blood test. Don't know if you can refuse a breathalyzer test and request a blood test instead. That's what I would do.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree with that. If I ever test positive and I know I am not, I would demand a blood test.


This however does not dismiss the admissibility of the breathalyzer.

 

[flyburg]

What do the Dutch JAR regs say?

JAR-OPS 1 Subpart B SECTION 1
01.12.06 1-B-4 Amendment 12

(e) A crew member shall not:
(1) Consume alcohol less than 8 hours
prior to the specified reporting time for flight duty
or the commencement of standby;
(2) Commence a flight duty period with a
blood alcohol level in excess of 0·2 promille;
(3) Consume alcohol during the flight
duty period or whilst on standby.

technically it's European legislation, not Dutch.

This is a copy though I saved some years ago, there may have been some changes since. I believe it is now called EU ops. Unfortunately not as clear cut as the US.

 

[RedDogC130]

General lee...,maybe...haven't heard from her yet

 

[Lynxman]

Interesting. Why then is there so much controversy about the breathalyzers? Several doctors have told me that the only accurate measurement comes from a blood test. Don't know if you can refuse a breathalyzer test and request a blood test instead. That's what I would do.

You can refuse the breathalyzer and tell the officer your situation. I'm a pilot this can ruin my career etc. etc. and ask for the blood test. Now he's going to have to drive you to the ER I believe to do this, but it's the only accurate way to measure. Now also there is a lot of steps to doing the blood test. If anyone of the steps is done in the wrong order or the officer touches the vile the case is thrown out. Also the nurse taking the blood has to show in court. It's very possible for errors to happen and have your case thrown out. This happened to a good friend of mine who also happens to be a pilot. He was off scott free. Obviously not driving is the logical first step.

 

[JT8D]

So what happens here. Assuming the news reports are accurate and that he was above the limit - does the company deal with it internally or does the FAA step in?

Being Europe, might make a difference, not sure. Also, the fact that he reported for duty complicates things immensely. But typically once a pilot comes under the spotlight as having a "problem", the FAA would immediately void his medical certificate and he would get to enter his company's "spin-dry" program (HIMS) and eventually get a "Special Issuance" medical after about a year of jumping thru the programs/FAA's hoops. Then monitored for a long time. Every airline out there has a group of pilots "in the program"...some airlines have a bigger percentage than others.

.023 is 1 beer for a 160lb man. Burn off rate is approx.015 per hour.

What the hell kind of country arrests and fines you for that?

Who in the hell weighs a 160lbs ?!!? Good God...eat a pizza will ya?!

You don't want your wife to be able to kick the crap outta ya. :laugh:

 

[rettofly]

I believe the FAA limit is .04. However, if the FOM specifies lower than .023, than it is controlling document and may lead to certificate action.

Isn't it .04 to show and .02 to fly?

The reg is silly. You can get hammered enough to fly with a hangover at<.02 as long as you stopped consuming more than 8 hours prior, but if you have your only sip at 7:59 prior and blow .00 when you show, you're in violation.

 

[crj567]

You can beg to differ, but I know for a fact that the ones used in DOT testing have to be calibrated. I am sure that they do the same over there. If the machine was not calibrated correctly then the person get off.

ACL, you are truly an airline mgmt expert, an expert on all things animal and mineral, and now you have become a trusted advisor on all laws and regulations worldwide.

As soon as you add "graduate of an accredited clown college-suma cum laude" to your list of accomplishments and accolades, I will concede that you are a scholar and a gentleman.

-God-You are a putz!

 

[Mr Wu]

You can refuse the breathalyzer

Does your driver's license state that operating a motor vehicle constitutes consent to any sobriety required by law?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

You guys are missing the point here! What the hell was he doing in Amsterdam being drunk? You're supposed to get high and bang a whore, not go to the bar!

 

[Dornier 335]

technically it's European legislation, not Dutch.

I know, but there are always exceptions to the JARs, e.g. I believe airspace still significantly differs from one EU country to another.

 

[flyburg]

I know, but there are always exceptions to the JARs, e.g. I believe airspace still significantly differs from one EU country to another.

Mhhhh, I don't know but I don't think so. Class a,b,c,d,e, etc is pretty much the same I thought. Just countries locate them differently.

You are right though, JAR OPS is standard for all countries, however, beside JAR's countries may have their own penal laws which may be more stringent than the JAR's.

You asked for a reference, I provided, however, being trained myself in the states, I admit, trying to make sense of the ever changing JAR, now being called EU OPS and the local regulations is a challenge.

Greetings

Reflecting on what I just wrote, I apologise, you are right! The rules don't always make sense. Your example of airspace is correct. The JAR's are clear but then every country comes with exceptions which you have to dig out from the jeppesen, same I guess when it comes to other regulations and nations having different penal codes. As far as dutch alcohol regulations, I guess they do follow the JAR's. At least my company manual states the same as the regs I posted.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ACL, you are truly an airline mgmt expert, an expert on all things animal and mineral, and now you have become a trusted advisor on all laws and regulations worldwide.

As soon as you add "graduate of an accredited clown college-suma cum laude" to your list of accomplishments and accolades, I will concede that you are a scholar and a gentleman.

-God-You are a putz!

Genius, I am not talking about international law. We have FAA Certificates and therefore are governed by the FAA.

But thanks for the worthless post.

 

[densoo]

Amazing how the flying public cares about intoxicated pilots yet goes into a hissy fit when a flight is cancelled due to pilot fatigue. Last time I checked, lack of sleep killed more people than alcohol.

Not to worry. It's coming. The new NPRM essentially blames the crew for being fatigued, not work rules, and it will be the lawful obligation of any airport employee to report you as suspected fatigued, just as they do now for suspected alcohol.

 

[Dornier 335]

lawful obligation of any airport employee to report you as suspected fatigued

I can see the next holy war with the TSA on the horizon...

 

[crj567]

Genius, I am not talking about international law. We have FAA Certificates and therefore are governed by the FAA.

But thanks for the worthless post.

I will defer to your obviously superior legal acumen. You are pretty smart. Remember that time you and the 17 other clowns managed to fit into that mini?
That was awesome!

-Suma Cum Laude!!

 

[twobits]

Wouldn't have happened if DL was still in Den Haag.... the bus ride to the airport would be long enough to sober up.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Wouldn't have happened if DL was still in Den Haag.... the bus ride to the airport would be long enough to sober up.

Since the ride from the Hague to Schipol is just as long as it is to Amsterdam, he was screwed either way. He could have spent some time on the beach in Schenvinengen though!

 

[boxjockey]

DL crews aren't in Den Haag any more? Lucky b@stards!! Nothing better than a 45 min bus ride after a 12 hour flight!!

box

 

[ACL65PILOT]

45? Wow that is short. We have some cities where it can take well over 2+30 to get to and from the hotel at certain times of the day.