Interpreting an Airmen's Entry at registry.faa.gov

[Vik]

A friend of mine isn't sure if he is instrument rated multi or just multi VFR. Here is what his FAA entry says:

Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Rating(s):

COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND


To me, it looks like he's a ASEL/IFR Commercial Pilot, but only a AMEL non-IFR PP.

Thanks in advance.

 

[iaflyer]

An instrument airplane rating is good in Single and Multi-engine airplanes. He should of been tested on instrument work during his multi-engine rating.

If he had not, it would say "AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND (VFR ONLY)". I believe the FAA is no longer doing VFR only multi-engine ratings as of a few years ago.

iaflyer

 

[EatSleepFly]

A friend of mine isn't sure if he is instrument rated multi or just multi VFR.

And all this time I've told students there was no such thing as a stupid question...

Did he have amnesia and forget? I thought it was a requirement to be able to read and understand the english language. Can't he just look at his certificate?

No disrespect to your friend...but geez.

 

[minitour]

If he had not, it would say "AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND (VFR ONLY)". I believe the FAA is no longer doing VFR only multi-engine ratings as of a few years ago.

iaflyer

how bout guys that get their private in a twin (some of the larger flight schools do it to get you PIC twin time)?

However, if you got the instrument rating...it's an instrument rating...

"Instrument Airplane" not "instrument single engine fixed gear 160 HP two seat high wing airplane"

EatSleepFly: I agree. Check out the ticket. I have my instrument ticket, but my entry in the registry isn't updated yet...the FAA wants to know what you've got in your pocket...

-mini

 

[Vik]

Well, the confusion came up because INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE isn't listed under "Private Pilot" also. So someone mentioned that he maybe a VFR only multi pilot.

Since I don't know any VFR only multi pilots w/ single engine land instrument ratings, I couldn't compare the entry to anything, so here I am

From what everyone told me, it sounds like his IFR ticket is valid for both ASEL and AMEL. He just needs to do his commercial multi checkride.

And all this time I've told students there was no such thing as a stupid question...

Did he have amnesia and forget? I thought it was a requirement to be able to read and understand the english language. Can't he just look at his certificate?

No disrespect to your friend...but geez.

 

[flyifrvfr]

His commercial Multi checkride will consist of single engine instrument approaches. If he doesn't do this, his commercial multi certificate will have a VFR ONLY limitation on it, regardless if he has commercial single engine and instrument.

 

[Vandal]

That is completly bogus...the instrument rating has no Multi/single implications, it is for ALL IFR flight.

 

[nosehair]

That is completly bogus...the instrument rating has no Multi/single implications, it is for ALL IFR flight.

Commercial Airplane PTS:
Airplane Multi-Engine
Area of Operation X: Multiengine Operations
NOTE: If the applicant is instrument rated, and has previously demonstrated instrument proficiency in a multiengine airplane or does not hold an instrument rating airplane, TASKs D and C need not be accomplished. (C is engine failure during flight, and D is instrument approach-one engine.)

If a single-engine private, no instrument rating, gets a multi add-on, or gets an initial private multi, or a commercial, with no instrument rating, or any combination way you wanna make it, he has to demonstrate tasks D and C in a multi to have IFR privilages in a multi.

Page 5 (the stuff up front) of the Commercial PTS tells how to remove the "VFR ONLY" limitation to a multiengine rating if you dont do tasks d and C when you get your multi.

 

[katanabob]

That is completly bogus...the instrument rating has no Multi/single implications, it is for ALL IFR flight.

I beg to differ. Refer to the Instrument PTS at http://av-info.faa.gov/data/practicalteststandard/faa-s-8081-4c.pdf

Page 13 says, " To obtain an instrument rating with multiengine privileges, an applicant must demonstrate competency in a multiengine airplane not limited to center thrust..."

It also goes on to express that you'd be restricted if you took a checkride in a centerline thrust multi as well.

 

[nosehair]

VIK, to answer your original question, since the limitation, "VFR Only" does not show on the multiengine rating, he would have instrument privileges in the multi. However, I know that sometimes, these things get dropped in the process. Did "your friend" have an instrument rating and demonstrate instrument proficiency on the multiengine checkride? Does his certificate read the same as his OKC record?

 

[NoahWerka]

Read page 6 fof the PTS

"To obtain an instrument rating with multiengine privileges, an applicant must demonstrate competency in a multiengine airplane not limited to center thrust. The multiengine airplane that is used to obtain unlimited multiengine privileges must have a VMC speed established by the manufacturer, and produce an asymmetrical thrust configuration with the loss of one or more engines. If an instrument flight test is conducted in a multiengine airplane limited to center thrust, a limitation shall be placed on the applicant’s certificate: (INSTRUMENT RATING, AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE, LIMITED TO CENTER THRUST)."

The way his certificate reads is he has: Commercial privileges, Single engine, instrument; he can fly single-engine for hire IFR. Private privileges: Single or Multi-engine; no Multi-engine IFR or for hire.

Did he take the Instrument in a single or multi-engined airplane? If it was a single-engine, has he since demonstrated IFR competency in a multi-engine airplane? If he has, then he has Private Multi-engine privileges IFR; not for hire. If not, since it is not listed under his Private privileges he probably hasn't,then no Multi-engine IFR....period. If seems to me that he has no understanding of his Privileges and Limitations. What else does he not understand about flying? Not sure I would want to ride around in an airplane with him.

 

[Vik]

He had an instrument rating when he took his multi checkride. He can't remember if he shot approaches during the checkride and his logbook has nothing written as far as approaches shot for the checkride.

He just got his ASES and his temp ticket is totally confusing b/c the examiner has listed everything which now looks like he has his commercial multi which we both know that he does not.

Basically, the guy wants to fly my twin around and the insurance company needs to know his exact ratings/certs/etc., before they'll add him. They don't want to insure him if he's only multi VFR.

VIK, to answer your original question, since the limitation, "VFR Only" does not show on the multiengine rating, he would have instrument privileges in the multi. However, I know that sometimes, these things get dropped in the process. Did "your friend" have an instrument rating and demonstrate instrument proficiency on the multiengine checkride? Does his certificate read the same as his OKC record?

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi for VFR only

That is completly bogus...the instrument rating has no Multi/single implications, it is for ALL IFR flight.

That is incorrect. One can take a multi checkride without demonstrating instrument approaches. If that happens, one is issued a multiengine rating limited to VFR. It will say so on the pilot certficate. To have that restriction removed, most examiners will ask only for an approach with all engines operating and an approach with an engine inoperative. Usually, the engine-inoperative approach will be an ILS.

 

[Vandal]

Bah humbug.

 

[nosehair]

He had an instrument rating when he took his multi checkride. He can't remember if he shot approaches during the checkride and his logbook has nothing written as far as approaches shot for the checkride.

Oh, ok. How long ago was that? If he can't remember, then it might have been back when,,,ya didn't hafta do instrument approaches in a multi for your instrument rating to cover it. It usta be that an instrument airplane rating covered all classes of airplane. So it could be that he is legal under the grandfather clause, which I can't quote, but if the certificate does not have printed on it "VFR ONLY" after Private priveleges AMEL, then he is not limited to vfr only. (probably)

I didn't do instrument approaches on my 5 hour Commanche add-on in '67.

 

[wings421]

If I really didn't know my privileges, I'd just call the FSDO or OK City.

 

[Vik]

Yeah, it was awhile ago, so its possible but his new temp ticket doesn't say "VFR ONLY" and neither does the FAA database.

Like someone suggested, I've told him to call the FSDO and/or OK

Oh, ok. How long ago was that? If he can't remember, then it might have been back when,,,ya didn't hafta do instrument approaches in a multi for your instrument rating to cover it. It usta be that an instrument airplane rating covered all classes of airplane. So it could be that he is legal under the grandfather clause, which I can't quote, but if the certificate does not have printed on it "VFR ONLY" after Private priveleges AMEL, then he is not limited to vfr only. (probably)

I didn't do instrument approaches on my 5 hour Commanche add-on in '67.