Interesting scope article

[JoeMerchant]

Career wise? You are!

My career is just fine....how about yours?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

What's in it for us?

If you are lucky, a flow thru. More than likely some form of preferential interview for DCI pilots. That would be my preference so as to weed out any rjdc types.

 

[Eagle757shark]

What's in it for us?

What is in it for you? NOTHING! The flying should be with the mainline company! The regional lives off the backs of the mainline carrier. They do no marketing, and don't take on nearly the cost their mainline counterpart takes on to operate as a airline. If the aircraft regardless of size makes since for a certain market, then mainline purchase it and then operate it at a cost that will allow it to be profitable. NO MORE OUTSOURCING OF JOBS!

 

[enuffalready]

outsourcing... mainline... blah, blah

I have said it many times before... choose to call me a lifer.. call me whatever you want, but i have and will continue to advocate what is in MY best interest, just as i expect any mainline guy to do the same. yes, I realize my job exists at the discretion of Delta/NWA management and I am ok with that. If mainline/ delta management get together and decide they are closing ASA, then so be it, ill take that chance and deal with the consequences of that decision. As I have pointed out before if you were a stud navy F4 guy from vietnam you went to TWA, Pan AM and Eastern... all gone. Its all a crap shoot. Its funny, the same people that advocate all RJ's at mainline to the detriment of my paycheck get all upset when I advocate 100 seat planes at my airline. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of us here that are not deterred by your silly arguments and adolescent name calling and will fight with everything we have to NOT permit a flow through and to improve our quality of life, just as you fight to improve yours

good day

 

[kf4amu]

Tell that to the guys you fly besides that have made said regional their destination in this career.

At some point its not worth changing airlines. That being said, all the old guys are deaf anyway (intercom? HA I dont need no stinkin intercom! What? Huh?) so they wouldnt hear me.

 

[rf285]

outsourcing... mainline... blah, blah

I have said it many times before... choose to call me a lifer.. call me whatever you want, but i have and will continue to advocate what is in MY best interest, just as i expect any mainline guy to do the same. yes, I realize my job exists at the discretion of Delta/NWA management and I am ok with that. If mainline/ delta management get together and decide they are closing ASA, then so be it, ill take that chance and deal with the consequences of that decision. As I have pointed out before if you were a stud navy F4 guy from vietnam you went to TWA, Pan AM and Eastern... all gone. Its all a crap shoot. Its funny, the same people that advocate all RJ's at mainline to the detriment of my paycheck get all upset when I advocate 100 seat planes at my airline. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of us here that are not deterred by your silly arguments and adolescent name calling and will fight with everything we have to NOT permit a flow through and to improve our quality of life, just as you fight to improve yours

good day

I won't go there with what that sounds like....

Good luck in your future endeavors. Maybe the pendulum is finally swinging in the right direction.

 

[enuffalready]

if you are saying it sounds like someone who takes responsibilty for themselves, accepts the consequences of his decisions both good and bad and doesnt expect any help from anyone, then yes, I agree with you

In my 8 years at ASA i have meet some really great people, but it never ceases to amaze me the lengths at which some pilots both regional and major, whine and moan and b!tch about the most innocuous of things. They constantly point fingers and blame everyone else for any and every little thing that they perceive as wrong in their lives....especially some that peruse this board.

say it three times with me..

I am not a victim... I am not a victim... I am not a victim...


ok... back to work now..

 

[Scope out RJ's]

My career is just fine....

Then why did you and your girlfriends try and sue to take someone elses?
Hope you didn't spend all that money!:laugh:

how about yours?

My worst day at a legacy is better than your best.

Carry on with your ----->:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[AvroGuy]

You will have a hard time convincing the captains I fly with to get rid of the jets. Esspecially since the guys are making close to 100K flying or 75K sitting reserve. Thier lives are pretty good. Ultimately it comes down to one question, Am I happy? If that guy is number 1 in base flying the line he/she wants, why leave for a significant pay cut, 18yr :maybe: upgrade at a legacy. They will say no thanks and I don't blame them.

 

[Eagle757shark]

outsourcing... mainline... blah, blah

I have said it many times before... choose to call me a lifer.. call me whatever you want, but i have and will continue to advocate what is in MY best interest, just as i expect any mainline guy to do the same. yes, I realize my job exists at the discretion of Delta/NWA management and I am ok with that. If mainline/ delta management get together and decide they are closing ASA, then so be it, ill take that chance and deal with the consequences of that decision. As I have pointed out before if you were a stud navy F4 guy from vietnam you went to TWA, Pan AM and Eastern... all gone. Its all a crap shoot. Its funny, the same people that advocate all RJ's at mainline to the detriment of my paycheck get all upset when I advocate 100 seat planes at my airline. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of us here that are not deterred by your silly arguments and adolescent name calling and will fight with everything we have to NOT permit a flow through and to improve our quality of life, just as you fight to improve yours

good day

When you are furloughed and then you watch your company turn around and give that flying to a regional for the sake of lower pay, then you would understand! The DC-9/737-200/Fokker100 basically sat the same capacity as the CRJ900 and EMB-190. Management came in and furloughed pilots flying the DC-9/737-200/Fokker100 and outsourced that flying to a lower bidder. The regionals are flying the same routes at someone elses expense. So yes I have a beef because someone who had to provide for his family lost his job because someone like you was willing to accept lower compesation to do what he did. It would be one thing if this was growth and expansion to a degree, which is still unacceptable, but this was replacement flying. So give it a rest, you took another mans job that was flying those size aircraft on those routes. What goes around comes around eventually! NO MORE OUTSOURCING OF FLYING JOBS!

 

[crj567]

I agree, so General are you going to run for a Rep position?

That would be great, but the General is otherwise engaged... You see-he is still serving our the last five years of his term as "Supreme Chief Ass Pirate of the Universe."

-Maybe next election.

 

[General Lee]

That would be great, but the General is otherwise engaged... You see-he is still serving our the last five years of his term as "Supreme Chief Ass Pirate of the Universe."

-Maybe next election.

And you can be my "right hand man...." You could bribe people with McRondald fries you made yourself, or sexual favors. Most would probably take the fries (I am guessing).

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

What's in it for us?

You knew it was coming: :bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[AvroGuy]

When you are furloughed and then you watch your company turn around and give that flying to a regional for the sake of lower pay, then you would understand! The DC-9/737-200/Fokker100 basically sat the same capacity as the CRJ900 and EMB-190. Management came in and furloughed pilots flying the DC-9/737-200/Fokker100 and outsourced that flying to a lower bidder. The regionals are flying the same routes at someone elses expense. So yes I have a beef because someone who had to provide for his family lost his job because someone like you was willing to accept lower compesation to do what he did. It would be one thing if this was growth and expansion to a degree, which is still unacceptable, but this was replacement flying. So give it a rest, you took another mans job that was flying those size aircraft on those routes. What goes around comes around eventually! NO MORE OUTSOURCING OF FLYING JOBS!

You think your job is free and clear at no expense to someone elses job. You better think again. I bet you support the lowest bidder without even thinking about it. Shop at wal-mart, k-mart, target. They have put other people out of business. aka at the expense of another man/woman supporting the family. Low wages and all. If you are going to get on the band wagon, you better look at your whole life and see what is going on and don't pay the absolute cheapest price for something again.

How about "No more out sourcing of american jobs to the lowest thirdworld nation bidder"--manufacturing, trucking, call centers, customer service.

Everyone just get off of your high horse.

 

[Eagle757shark]

You think your job is free and clear at no expense to someone elses job. You better think again. I bet you support the lowest bidder without even thinking about it. Shop at wal-mart, k-mart, target. They have put other people out of business. aka at the expense of another man/woman supporting the family. Low wages and all. If you are going to get on the band wagon, you better look at your whole life and see what is going on and don't pay the absolute cheapest price for something again.

How about "No more out sourcing of american jobs to the lowest thirdworld nation bidder"--manufacturing, trucking, call centers, customer service.

Everyone just get off of your high horse.

And that is the problem with this industry, your kind of thinking. You compare your profession to Walmart, K-mart, and Target. Damn you hit it right on the head. Hey buddy, how many lawyers lower their fees to get your but out of trouble? When you need the best medical procedure, would you go to a doctor who is willing to lower his fees? Remember, you get what you pay for. Ask every passenger on US Airways FLT 1549 how much their pilots are worth. I love what I do for a living, but I don't want to spend the next 24 years going backwards when we should be going forward. I invested a lot of time and training to get where I am, and don't appreciate it when someone tries to cheapen it.

I'd rather see the CRJ700/900 and EMB170/190 product on the same property as the 737/757/767/777. I'd rather see you on my seniority list with an opportunity to bid to any of these aircraft based on what you would enjoy doing. I don't want the airplanes to go away. If they can earn my company a profit, I just want them to be flown by the pilots on my seniority list. I would like for you to have the choice to have a chance to fly what you want within our fleet. I challenge you outside of pay, what reason is there to have a EMB or CRJ flown on another certificate? Why does Delta, have so many regionals flying for them? The average passenger buys a ticket to fly from point A to point B. They connect at a hub and fly on a outsourced connection flight. They still believe they are flying on a Delta jet, why. Explain this flawed philosophy and why we buy into it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

And that is the problem with this industry, your kind of thinking. You compare your profession to Walmart, K-mart, and Target. Damn you hit it right on the head. Hey buddy, how many lawyers lower their fees to get your but out of trouble? When you need the best medical procedure, would you go to a doctor who is willing to lower his fees? Remember, you get what you pay for. Ask every passenger on US Airways FLT 1549 how much their pilots are worth. I love what I do for a living, but I don't want to spend the next 24 years going backwards when we should be going forward. I invested a lot of time and training to get where I am, and don't appreciate it when someone tries to cheapen it.

I'd rather see the CRJ700/900 and EMB170/190 product on the same property as the 737/757/767/777. I'd rather see you on my seniority list with an opportunity to bid to any of these aircraft based on what you would enjoy doing. I don't want the airplanes to go away. If they can earn my company a profit, I just want them to be flown by the pilots on my seniority list. I would like for you to have the choice to have a chance to fly what you want within our fleet. I challenge you outside of pay, what reason is there to have a EMB or CRJ flown on another certificate? Why does Delta, have so many regionals flying for them? The average passenger buys a ticket to fly from point A to point B. They connect at a hub and fly on a outsourced connection flight. They still believe they are flying on a Delta jet, why. Explain this flawed philosophy and why we buy into it.

Eagle757,

I understand your frustration, and many of us on the "regional" side have tried to "fix" this problem for years. There were ASA and CMR pilots who participated in the first ALPA scope committees back in 1995....14 years ago...Then in 2000, the ASA and CMR pilots tried to advance the concept of a single list for ALL aircraft.....All of these attempts were squashed by the Delta MEC. For years the mainline pilots didn't want to have anything to do with those "little" airplanes....That isn't MY fault...

As a result of the scope problem, many of us have chosen to make the regional level a career...If you want our flying now, you will have to work WITH us...not against us.....The mainline pilots are a little late to the party.....

I have no problem with a single list....but I am not going to go back on reserve at the bottom of the payscale.......

 

[Eagle757shark]

Eagle757,

I understand your frustration, and many of us on the "regional" side have tried to "fix" this problem for years. There were ASA and CMR pilots who participated in the first ALPA scope committees back in 1995....14 years ago...Then in 2000, the ASA and CMR pilots tried to advance the concept of a single list for ALL aircraft.....All of these attempts were squashed by the Delta MEC. For years the mainline pilots didn't want to have anything to do with those "little" airplanes....That isn't MY fault...

As a result of the scope problem, many of us have chosen to make the regional level a career...If you want our flying now, you will have to work WITH us...not against us.....The mainline pilots are a little late to the party.....

I have no problem with a single list....but I am not going to go back on reserve at the bottom of the payscale.......

I agree. I should say I don't blame the regional airline pilots for the state of our industry. Mainline pilots giving up scope and a lack of vision created this problem.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind, enjoy bayoneting straw men.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Eagle757,

I understand your frustration, and many of us on the "regional" side have tried to "fix" this problem for years. There were ASA and CMR pilots who participated in the first ALPA scope committees back in 1995....14 years ago...Then in 2000, the ASA and CMR pilots tried to advance the concept of a single list for ALL aircraft.....All of these attempts were squashed by the Delta MEC. For years the mainline pilots didn't want to have anything to do with those "little" airplanes....That isn't MY fault...

Trying to fix the problem by filing a frivilous lawsuit trying to abrogate a mainline airline's legally binding contract is not trying to fix anything.
You created your world of a mess, now live in it you dog!
You're stuck at a regional because you can't get out!

As a result of the scope problem, many of us have chosen to make the regional level a career...If you want our flying now, you will have to work WITH us...not against us.....The mainline pilots are a little late to the party.....

Maybe we could sue for hundreds of $$millions like you losers. Naah, we earned our jobs the hard way. It's just a lot easier for you to just sit back and.....:crying: :crying: :crying:

I have no problem with a single list....but I am not going to go back on reserve at the bottom of the payscale.......

Of course you don't have a problem with a single list. you sued to try to get it, among other things.
Now get back to your rock! I'm sure LJ is lonely without you under there to keep her warm.

 

[Lebowski]

Why doesn't ALPA national (together with other union partners) fight scope creep with a specific, nationwide pay policy--like setting a MINIMUM national wage table on all aircraft in a certain range--like 40-50 seats, 50-76 seats, and 76-100 seats. They could do this while still leaving the larger aircraft open to negotiation at each major, but this would stop the continuous lowering of the bar.

A policy like this could change the picture at the BOTTOM end of the industry. It would help avoid situations like Republic E190 FOs topping out at $37/hr to fly a 100-seat jet. Isn't that the motivation for majors to outsource?

If a minimum rate table were set for these major/regional crossover aircraft that was based on comparable mainline rates, you could elminate mainline's motivation to outsource the lower end of what most of us believe should be mainline aircraft.

It could be set up so that any pilot who chooses to go to a carrier (union or not) that operates one of these class of aircraft below the set pay table would forever forfeit their opportunity to fly at an ALPA/union carrier. You could even phase it in, so that it doesn't necessarily hamstring the current set of regional pilots (like the Republic E190 FOs). Give them a little time to move out of their current position, then after that--say a year from now--you forever surrender your hopes for moving up.

To me, this seems like a simple, pragmatic way to lift the bottom up, so to speak (no pun intended for you backdoor types). I think a national seniority list is a pipe dream. But a policy like this could be implemented practically overnight and lend some much needed firepower to APA and other groups who are fighting for scope, when it's already been given up at other carriers.

Any better ideas?