Interesting RJ Event

[a320drivr]

NTSB Identification: DCA05IA072
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 129: Foreign operation of Air Canada Jazz
Incident occurred Thursday, June 09, 2005 in colorado spring, CO
Aircraft: Bombardier, Inc. CL-600-2D15, registration: CGJAZ
Injuries: 66 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
An Air Canada Jazz Bombardier CL-600-2D15, tail number C-GJAZ, operating as flight number JZA8501 from Houston, Texas to Calgary, Alberta Canada, experienced a stick shaker event while at flight level 410 and in the vicinity of Colorodo Springs, Colorado. The airplane was at Mach 0.070 when the flight encountered a downdraft and the stick shaker activated. Maximum thrust was set and a lower altitude was requested. The airplane descended at approximately 1000 feet per minute with a 3 degree nose down attitude. An attempt to recover at flight level 400 was made but the stick shaker activated briefly and the descent was continued. Recovery was made at flight level 380 and the airplane returned to a planned speed of Mach 0.77. There were 62 passengers on board and no injuries were reported. Transportation Safety Board Canada has secured the flight data recorder and has provided an accreditted representative to the investigation.

 

[belchfire]

0.070 M...I don't even know if a
jetpig will go that slow at 410.
Heck, some of them won't even
make it to 250 at 0.300 M!

Yeah, yeah, I know. I read the
disclamer about being the preliminary
report nad yam contain rerors.

curiouser and curiouser...

 

[J32driver]

Pinnacle wasn't the 1st and they won't be the last crew to stall the CRJ at a high altitude. The ONLY difference between the incident and the accident, the Pinnacle crew tried to keep the airplane at altitude instead of letting it come downhill. I honestly believe if the Pinnacle crew had shoved the nose over and let the airplane come downhill they'd be alive today.

 

[Serrano]

Pinnacle wasn't the 1st and they won't be the last crew to stall the CRJ at a high altitude. The ONLY difference between the incident and the accident, the Pinnacle crew tried to keep the airplane at altitude instead of letting it come downhill. I honestly believe if the Pinnacle crew had shoved the nose over and let the airplane come downhill they'd be alive today.

Only a 3000 foot loss in altitude. I doubt
they delt with a flameout.

 

[Flechas]

At least we can see that someone learned something from the Pinnacle accident.

 

[rvsm410]

Maybe, But why were they even there to start with, especially at M.70....heavy and close to aerodynamic stall, any minor upset, especially in the rockies where the Mountain rotors below can cause updrafts even at those altitudes...

Cant believe they were flight planned for the FL....Obviously this was a CR700 this is different from the PCL acft...Leading edge devices more powerful engines...glad they decided to come downhill....Just another opinion...I know everyones got one!

At least we can see that someone learned something from the Pinnacle accident.

 

[TV9Driver]

For those who fly the CRJ, is there any indication of the coffin corner on the speed tape display, or do you have to look at charts to see what speed you need to be at? I only ask because the airplane I fly has a amber footer and header for the stall and mach tuck and you can easily see if you are at a safe airspeed for the altitude. The way the Pinnicle crew reacted to the stick shaker caused me to think they didn't know the speed condition they were in.

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe, But why were they even there to start with, especially at M.70....heavy and close to aerodynamic stall, any minor upset, especially in the rockies where the Mountain rotors below can cause updrafts even at those altitudes...

.70M is not close to aerodynamic stall at that altitude in a CRJ in level flight. The 3701 aircraft didn't stall until reaching .51M. The problem in this incident seems to be that a rather large downdraft upset the airflow over the wings. Personally, I'd much rather be down lower when risk of mountain wave is a possibility, but flying at FL410 with a speed of .70M is not really dangerous. It seems to me that these guys handled the situation perfectly. The shaker went off and they immediately started a descent.

 

[Ben Franklin]

The problem in this incident seems to be that a rather large downdraft upset the airflow over the wings.

'Ol Ben would venture a guess to say that said downdraft caused the plane to weathervane. Upon "weathervanation" the challenger came close to/exceeded its critical angle of attack.

We must remember that an airfoil can stall at any altitude, any airspeed and any attitude. The only thing necessary for a stall to occur is an exceedence of the critical angle of attack.

For Canada!



Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ty Webb]

For those of us who got to fly old junk at the limits of its capabilities, well, it's very obvious that you need to consult the charts, using the proper temps and weights, etc., and to be aware of atmospheric changes that may affect your ability to get there, and to remain there.

Hardly a Falcon 20, Learjet or Sabreliner driver is out there that doesn't know that you just don't get slower than .70 or you risk a flame-out, and if you do flame out, knows what they are going to do, and in what order, including confessing, descending, retarding, igniting, powering, and whatever else is necessary to rectify the situation.

The unfortunate reality of the Pinnacle crash is that those guys didn't respect the equipment, they didn't have the experience to be up there, didn't recognize the danger inherent in the situation, and once it happened, didn't have a plan to deal with it.
Very sad. AT least this Canuck crew seemed to know what the hell they had gotten in to, and how to get out of it.