Interesting: No rudder needed at all???

[Lead Sled]

The rudder is actually only there to made up for a flaw in the design of alerons.

It's not really that simple and there are other valid reasons for rudders than merely to compensate for adverse aileron yaw. Rudders come in pretty handy when you need to slip or when you're landing in x-winds.

Unanswerd...

I'm not about to second guess your instructor's method. Granted, it's not the way that I usually choose to teach turns, but he probably has his reasons. The last thing your CFI needs is to have a student that runs to a forum like this one every time he he tries to introduce a new concept. Relax, take a few deep breaths and get on with the program. I'm sure that he'll teach it properly. If he doesn't, this forum isn't the place to go to get things sorted out. If it ever comes to that, you'll simply need to find another instructor. Like I said, give it a bit of time.

Lead Sled

 

[lawfly]

Rudder

Rudder & The ILS

I didn't say I do it or teach it. I said "you'll be...with rudder only". I do know at least one guy, a DPE, who teaches it and the heading change at issue when I flew with him was literally 1 or 2 degrees, during an ILS. He demo'd his rudder-only technique to me not too long ago. Hey, it was his show at the time. He did comment about "people in the back" (we didn't have any at the time; it was an 8-10 seater).

I just teach "small corrections" on the ILS. And have shot many to mins in actual w/pax on board. No puke yet. (The DPE's demo came after my own aileron-guided bracketing. It's just his "thing", apparently.)

The intended implication of my earlier post was that given Unanswerd's present tendencies toward aileron-only turns during relatively large heading changes, he might have a tendency toward rudder-only during very small heading changes, on a localizer, and there is at least one DPE encouraging rudder-only in heading changes of one or two degrees, on a localizer. Unanswerd's original post reminded of the DPE's presentation.

 

[Singlecoil]

The rudder is actually only there to made up for a flaw in the design of alerons. Pick up a copy of stick and rudder. Amazing book. It dispells many aerodynamic myths.

That would be true if you only flew airplanes with counter-rotating props, or pure jets. Even Turbo-fans have left-turning tendencies due to the size of the fan. In a single engine airplane, or a twin that doesn't have counter-rotating props, your feet will (should) move everytime you move the throttle(s).

edit: I guess I left out gliders...

 

[Goose Egg]

My students sure don't seem to think that they need any rudder on the takeoff roll. I beg to differ with them.

-Goose

 

[lawfly]

Rudder During Climb

I've trimmed it in during climbs to altitude in a TBM-700. Small price to pay, though...It also comes in handy in multis when one stops turning.

 

[aviatornick]

ive used the rudder technique during approaches and ive found that it works better. students usually over correct and ive heard this is a good way to get them to make small corrections.

 

[100LL... Again!]

It's sloppy piloting, though, and will not transfer well to larger aircraft.

 

[aviatornick]

do you really need a rudder with larger aircraft? i doubt a captain or first officer on a 737 thinks about adding right rudder during their take off roll.

i could be wrong

 

[minitour]

do you really need a rudder with larger aircraft? i doubt a captain or first officer on a 737 thinks about adding right rudder during their take off roll.

i could be wrong

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft? That's really cool...I thought it was just prop aircraft...cool....

-mini

 

[lawfly]

Rudder, Rudder, & More Rudder (Or Was It Less Rudder?)

Hey, how about V-1 cuts? Now, those are cool! At or above V-1, hold that rudder and wait for VR...

All this rudder talk, yaw'll take care, now!

 

[Lead Sled]

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft?

No

Lead Sled

 

[nosehair]

But what about engine cuts at rotation?...or rotating a large aircraft with "take-off flaps" not set, and with heavy ice accumulation from the 30-minute wait at the take-off position, and trying to stagger out of ground effect?...that's when the lack of rudder control is so very evident by the excessive "waggle" on the "steering wheel".

Even in a big jet, in those conditions, adverse aileron yaw is the Killer.

...and so, you are well served by the instructor who imposes on you the active, aggressive use of the rudder during your early training.

The practice of using "rudder only" corrections translates to a higher skill of immediate rudder response for heading corrections in general. Rote monkey response. Then as we develop skill and control touch, we feed in in aileron as needed to keep it smooth.

Practicing rudder only pressures, lightly, smoothly, and immediately at the first peek of a dot from behind the needle, will keep the pressures so light that the passengers will not spill a drop.

If trained to do this from the very first, the touch will come from life-long practice, and the pilot will retain the "foot-rudder" skill which so often causes him to lose the immediately-required-rudder-situation on Take-Off or Landing.

 

[aviatornick]

what will we be covering next week teacher?



great info!

 

[Singlecoil]

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft? That's really cool...I thought it was just prop aircraft...cool....

-mini

You do in high-bypass turbo-fans, though it is much more subtle. The higher bypass the engine, the higher the percentage of thrust that is being produced by the fan. Fan blades have ascending/descending blade issues just like props do. On takeoff roll, most of the time you are correcting for the centerline with rudder (and nosewheel steering via the rudder pedals) because of the engines spooling up at different rates. However, it seems like nine times out of ten, your initial correction is with the right foot.

 

[U-I pilot]

Speaking of P-factor topics (not to hijack the thread....)

Is there any reason that all props rotate the way they do? (clockwise from cockpit).....
I assume its just cause the first one was made that way so they continue but assuming they redesigned the airplane and engine and prop to account for this....would there be any forseeable advantage to building an airplane with a prop that rotates the other way?
I know they have this on seminoles to make it so there is no specific "critical engine".....Am I just hitting a rock against a wall with this one???