Interesting: No rudder needed at all???

[aviatornick]

ive used the rudder technique during approaches and ive found that it works better. students usually over correct and ive heard this is a good way to get them to make small corrections.

 

[100LL... Again!]

It's sloppy piloting, though, and will not transfer well to larger aircraft.

 

[aviatornick]

do you really need a rudder with larger aircraft? i doubt a captain or first officer on a 737 thinks about adding right rudder during their take off roll.

i could be wrong

 

[minitour]

do you really need a rudder with larger aircraft? i doubt a captain or first officer on a 737 thinks about adding right rudder during their take off roll.

i could be wrong

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft? That's really cool...I thought it was just prop aircraft...cool....

-mini

 

[lawfly]

Rudder, Rudder, & More Rudder (Or Was It Less Rudder?)

Hey, how about V-1 cuts? Now, those are cool! At or above V-1, hold that rudder and wait for VR...

All this rudder talk, yaw'll take care, now!

 

[Lead Sled]

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft?

No

Lead Sled

 

[nosehair]

But what about engine cuts at rotation?...or rotating a large aircraft with "take-off flaps" not set, and with heavy ice accumulation from the 30-minute wait at the take-off position, and trying to stagger out of ground effect?...that's when the lack of rudder control is so very evident by the excessive "waggle" on the "steering wheel".

Even in a big jet, in those conditions, adverse aileron yaw is the Killer.

...and so, you are well served by the instructor who imposes on you the active, aggressive use of the rudder during your early training.

The practice of using "rudder only" corrections translates to a higher skill of immediate rudder response for heading corrections in general. Rote monkey response. Then as we develop skill and control touch, we feed in in aileron as needed to keep it smooth.

Practicing rudder only pressures, lightly, smoothly, and immediately at the first peek of a dot from behind the needle, will keep the pressures so light that the passengers will not spill a drop.

If trained to do this from the very first, the touch will come from life-long practice, and the pilot will retain the "foot-rudder" skill which so often causes him to lose the immediately-required-rudder-situation on Take-Off or Landing.

 

[aviatornick]

what will we be covering next week teacher?



great info!

 

[Singlecoil]

Do you still get left turning tendencies with jet aircraft? That's really cool...I thought it was just prop aircraft...cool....

-mini

You do in high-bypass turbo-fans, though it is much more subtle. The higher bypass the engine, the higher the percentage of thrust that is being produced by the fan. Fan blades have ascending/descending blade issues just like props do. On takeoff roll, most of the time you are correcting for the centerline with rudder (and nosewheel steering via the rudder pedals) because of the engines spooling up at different rates. However, it seems like nine times out of ten, your initial correction is with the right foot.

 

[U-I pilot]

Speaking of P-factor topics (not to hijack the thread....)

Is there any reason that all props rotate the way they do? (clockwise from cockpit).....
I assume its just cause the first one was made that way so they continue but assuming they redesigned the airplane and engine and prop to account for this....would there be any forseeable advantage to building an airplane with a prop that rotates the other way?
I know they have this on seminoles to make it so there is no specific "critical engine".....Am I just hitting a rock against a wall with this one???

 

[100LL... Again!]

My right foot would get a rest, for one.

Someone with more energy than me can talk about vertical stabilizer assymetry and canting the engine to correct for left turning tendencies.

While we're at it, here is another way to correct left-turning tendencies:

"Right"rudder






Sorry.

 

[Goose Egg]

...the pilot will retain the "foot-rudder" skill which so often causes him to lose the immediately-required-rudder-situation on Take-Off or Landing.

Funny, I have always used coordinated control pressures to track an ILS, and don't really have much problem taking off or landing on the centerline. Rudder-only is sloppy. Don't do it.

-Goose

 

[nosehair]

Funny, I have always used coordinated control pressures to track an ILS, and don't really have much problem taking off or landing on the centerline. Rudder-only is sloppy. Don't do it.

-Goose

Right, Goose, and the student will. In time, he will "pull-in" the aileron along with the rudder, as he gains skill and experience. You know dang good-'n-well that no newly minted instrument pilot is gonna suddenly captain a large aircraft. And by the time he does, he won't be doin' no rote-monkey contol inputs....'cept maybe the ol' aileron-yaw thing in the initial flare or rotation...which is where it really counts.

 

[Tinstaafl]

U-I Pilot, there are many single engine a/c with anti-clockwise rotating engines eg British designs such as Tiger Moths, Chipmunks etc.

 

[FlyinTim]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** man...2 lessons and you think like this...nice job...become a CFI, the world needs good ones.

 

[flyifrvfr]

One of the things I show my students on the first lesson is that you can bank, and turn a Cessna using rudder only. I show them this as I explain that rudder is mainly for control of adverse yaw. I also show them that you can fly the airplane using only the rudder, throttle, and trim. This seems to make a student settle down and control the airplane more precisely and smoothly.

 

[Tinstaafl]

The only time my students were allowed to use unco. aileron was their very first Effects of Controls lesson '...effects of ailerons' section where I wanted them to focus on what those specific surfaces did. After that it's all coordinated.

I taught S&L in two sections:

1. PREVENT the heading from deviating from the target (any recognisable object as far away as visibility would allow, then a specific compass HDG). This done by using rudder pressure to stop any yaw while simultaneously keeping the wings level, and

2. CORRECT any heading deviation that has already happened by using coordinated aileron & rudder to bank the a/c by a small amount, wait, then coord. controls to return to S&L flight. Of course this is nothing more than a coordinated turn, covered in more depth a lesson or two later.