Interesting MOA encounter with Viper

[bssthound]

message deleted

 

[SIG600]

You commented on it so you must care on some level. Or it could be you're just another Navy pilot who spouts sh*t like he knows what he's talking about, which usually isn't the case. Sort of like thinking we still wear ascots. Kinda like y'all wear golf shirts under your flight suits.

What's the answer?

He's a Marine, and a RAG student, so don't pay attention. He's got no operational experience, and thus no real argument in this thing.

Answer to how close MC-130's go lead-trail at night in the moutains on gogs? Way fugging closer than I want to be. Watched a multi ship of those guys in a valley in Afghanistan, from WAY up high. Yeesh.

 

[Future SNA]

If you read back a couple posts from my first I was actually mocking the MC-130 guy that was AGAINST what you all were saying. But I digress.

 

[stonewall]

If you read back a couple posts from my first I was actually mocking the MC-130 guy that was AGAINST what you all were saying. But I digress.

It's all good here. We're on the same team, including Deuce. I know him well, and we had a fairly heated discussion about this thread. He convinced me he was actually correct in what he was saying, but he does agree the civvie guys were dumba**es. I jumped to his defense on a few things, simply because I know alot about what he does and what he did in OEF and OIF. In the future, you probably shouldn't try to mock guys that have more night combat time below 1000' AGL than you have total time, no matter what they fly.

SIG, thank you for being the voice of reason and rising above the petty rivalries here. And for continuing to say Dave Griffin is an a** every chance you get.

SNA, best of luck in the RAG and over the next couple years. They will be, without question, some of the best and most challenging years of your life. Enjoy it!

 

[stonewall]

Answer to how close MC-130's go lead-trail at night in the moutains on gogs? Way fugging closer than I want to be. Watched a multi ship of those guys in a valley in Afghanistan, from WAY up high. Yeesh.

200'.

 

[SIG600]

200'.

Oh I know, had a great view from up high with Baro Alt Hold selected, watching them through my NVG's and FLIR, glad I didn't have to do that.

I have the upmost respect for all the USAF bretheren, but I'll always make fun of ascots too.

 

[Bjammin]

Many times MOA's are not hot and most centers will have the info for you. The contrlling angency for the MOA's is listed in the low charts and, I think, the sectionals. You will get a favoribale response if you call a squadron and/or wing and let them know you will be transiting. They cannot tell you NO, but may say it is going to be very active, or that one guy is going to be in there and will avoid your altitude. Wouldn't you like to know that?

I am far in away in agreement that ANY mil guy that deviates from a MTR or flys unsafe outside a MOA should be delt with EXTREAMLY harsly, both from inside AND outside the military.

We all clear our airspace inside the MOA when doing work, it's even stated in our pre-aerobatic checklist, but we do fly to the extream in the MOA, like it or not and HAVE to divide our attention.

FAA guys, please make yourself available to squadrons and tell us how we can do our jobs better and safer. You will have a captive audience.



I understand some of the attitude against military pilots. I fly with Know It All a-holes all the time. Guys that think they are ABOVE the law and fly like crap, even guys that can be unsafe. We weed them out when we can, but there will always be a few around. Same when I was a civialian flight instructor. I just think the public expects more from a military trained pilot, and sometimes we fall short. I apoligize for that.

Thanks for the good, open discussion here and hopefully we all got the points across.

 

[bssthound]

200'

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGG!!

I fly with Know It All a-holes all the time. Guys that think they are ABOVE the law and fly like crap, even guys that can be unsafe

Amen, I've seen that in both my Reserve and 121 gig.

 

[BushwickBill]

You will get a favoribale response if you call a squadron and/or wing and let them know you will be transiting. They cannot tell you NO, but may say it is going to be very active, or that one guy is going to be in there and will avoid your altitude. Wouldn't you like to know that?

Mostly I just glance over the Military section FI. I just wanted to know how you could go about contacting a squadron and how you could find out what squadron uses a certain MOA?

FYI everyone, airspace is taught as ok or not ok in the civi world. Everyone can tell you restricted areas are not ok to enter. I think there is quite a bit lost in translation when instructors teach MOA's are ok to enter but...

I always try to tell my students about my encounter with a C-17 in florida that was about 500' agl and in a 90 degree bank. I was in a car. Still it made a fairly big impression on me and it was while I was getting my PPL.

Still the "its ok to enter MOAs but" leaves a lot of people with the idea that its ok to enter MOAs. They just forget about the but...

 

[avbug]

Contacting a squadron to enquire about an airspace parcel is a futile concept...as airspace isn't assigned to just one squadron. Or Wing. Or group...you get the idea. How about joint use airspace?

Not even contacting ATC will enable you to know if the airspace will be hot in the near future. Just if it's in use now...and not even then all the time.

I'm sure a squadron would love for you to call. The PAO or XO has nothing better to do than wait around all day for your call...but it's not going to do much for you downrange as you cross the MOA.