Interesting MOA encounter with Viper

[erj-145mech]

Yes, their tail number. You can find where they came from or going, call the FBO, and have them leave a message on the windscreen. We've done it a couple of times so they may think twice about doing it again.

If they are VFR, chances are that there was no flight plan filed, so how are you going to find out where they came from and where they are going?

If you call my FBO and tell them to leave a message on the windshield, they are going to tell you to go pack sand!

MOA's are joint use airspace. Its not your place to tell someone that they do not belong there. If your mission requires you to maneuver with careless abandon, then you need to take your games to a restricted area.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, their tail number. You can find where they came from or going, call the FBO, and have them leave a message on the windscreen. We've done it a couple of times so they may think twice about doing it again.

They have all been C-172's so I don't think TCAS was a player.

It's just one more, little way we can get the word out that flying through an active MOA is dangerous.



ONCE AGAIN, is anyone willing to call the users of the MOAs that they are going to be going through???

You mean like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x70o5lTd1U

 

[stonewall]

MOA's are joint use airspace. Its not your place to tell someone that they do not belong there. If your mission requires you to maneuver with careless abandon, then you need to take your games to a restricted area.

It's not careless abandon, nor are they games. I think you know that...I think you were just trying to say something cool and witty. Instead, you come off sounding much more arrogant than any fighter guy on here.

I'd love to fly in restricted or warning areas on every sortie. Unfortunately, we can't always get it. It's also tough to redesignate MOAs as restricted because, well, people like you will b*tch and complain about the military "games."

 

[Papyco]

Why is it so hard for non Tac-Air guys (non fighter) to understand that I can’t spend time to look outside to watch out for a retarded 172 when i am running down range at Mach .9+? Let alone when I am in a 2v1 (or any WVR engagement). It’s not like I am going to be able to clear the space about me when I can go from 5,000 ft to 35,000 ft in the time it takes for a 172 pilot to pick his nose.

A fighter guy is not being unsafe when he says that he can’t spend time to avoid you. He is simply trying to avoid hitting the guy he is currently fighting (ever pull G while fighting another fighter? It’s a full time job just maintaining separation from the guy you have padlocked). It’s not like flying at 200kts in straight and level flight. I don’t care how many C-130 hours you have. Unless you have flown multiple BFM engagements with multiple bandits/fighters don’t try to tell me how to keep an eye out for a dumba$$ who decides to go wandering through my DEZ.

Just stay out of an active MOA. If you can’t, please coordinate with the controlling agency. There are smart ways of crossing an active MOA. The civilian pilot in question decided he was too good to use commonsense. The F-16’s in question probably wanted to make sure that the civilians were indeed proceeding out of the area before they restarted their engagement.

600 feet being confused for 10 feet. You got to me sh!$$%ng me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why is it so hard for non Tac-Air guys (non fighter) to understand

Why is it so hard for you TacAir guys to understand? Is this all about you? If the DoD and the Dept of Commerce and Transportation wanted you to have an exclusive area they'd give it to you...

I guess you gotta share.

The F-16’s in question probably wanted to make sure that the civilians were indeed proceeding out of the area before they restarted their engagement.

Seems like a controller activity. You come across as a bully.

600 feet being confused for 10 feet. You got to me sh!$$%ng me.

Again... you don't want to understand, but you want to be understood? You just come across as the Bad Ass TacAir guy who is all righteous.

In this post 9/11 world, a Civ guy with TCAS TA/RA going off and a fighter jet in view can be pretty intimidating... As the CIV guy tries to get away the F-16 'aggressively pursue' and 'follow in a dive'... you'd better bet the 600ft looks like 10 feet.

The guy was probably fearful.. and fear turns to anger...


Seems your problem is how MOAs are designated... talk to your gov't.

 

[SIG600]

Wait a minute... so the lawyer LIED?!?!?!

Say it ain't SO! He'll need a shoe horn to get his foot out of his mouth.

 

[stonewall]

Sounds like stuff they do in MC-130 land...."yup, I can just make out there's another plane out there...yeah buddy...we're formation flying now."

Out of curiosity, how close do MC-130s fly when they're doing close trail on the gogs at 500' AGL?

I know the answer, but I don't think you do. Glad to see that didn't stop you from posting.

 

[Papyco]

If the DoD and the Dept of Commerce and Transportation wanted you to have an exclusive area they'd give it to you...

No they can’t. Civilians will b!#$% and moan too much.

The guy was probably fearful.. and fear turns to anger...

He should have been scared. He could have caused a midair. Talk to the controlling agency before you go wandering through a hot MOA.

Seems your problem is how MOAs are designated... talk to your gov't

You really think that we don’t bitch about this? Nothing gets done because AOPA/Airlines/FAA/whoever always wins. In the last 20 years we have lost a lot of MOAs. We can’t even keep what we have, let alone get new airspace. Any idea how long it took the Navy to get a new MOA over NAS Lemoore? Answer: Decades.

 

[stonewall]

I don’t care how many C-130 hours you have. Unless you have flown multiple BFM engagements with multiple bandits/fighters don’t try to tell me how to keep an eye out for a dumba$$ who decides to go wandering through my DEZ.

You should be keeping an eye out for ANYONE who wanders into your DEZ. If they're in your DEZ, it's your job to know about it.

I know what you mean in your post, but I find it ironic that you try to correct another mil aviator while perhaps confusing your own terms.

Try to remember this is about MOAs and uninformed GA guys flying through them. They shouldn't be there, but IF they are, and you hit one doing BFM (an extremely rare likelihood, I know), saying "that guy was a dumba**" won't get you off the hook.

 

[Papyco]

They shouldn't be there, but IF they are, and you hit one doing BFM (an extremely rare likelihood, I know), saying "that guy was a dumba**" won't get you off the hook.

Magnum,

You know what I mean. Of course I should know what is going on in my DEZ. What happens when you are getting reverse AIC and no one sees that low flying 172? Where do a lot of BFM engagements end up?

This is the last thing I am going to post on this topic.

Out.