Interesting Jetblue analysis--article

[JayDub]

First and foremost, let me say I think this article (as can be expected from them) is right on. Absolutely every item he listed is a future concern. In fact, I’ve heard all this before… from our Senior Management Team. That's why we have a Senior Management Team; to also see these obstacles and react to them proactively. This is contrary, it would seem, to the philosophy of most other airlines. To me, these other guys seem to think reacting within three months after a market condition presents itself is timely. Why was Goodwin not trying to negotiate better deals on his leases, gates, etc. during the time Bethune knew he had to replace his fleet with newer airplanes? Totally different philosophies, totally different results.

I have been ALPA, APA, Teamster, and NO union (worst). I'll take ALPA any day. I don't agree with everything ALPA does...You can't make everyone happy all of the time. They're the best game in town. You guys keep drinking that Kool-Aid...you'll get *ucked in the end. Sooner or later, it always happens. Ever stop to think maybe YOU guys have let the pilot profession down? I go to work to bring home a paycheck for my family...not to go to company picnics and pep rallys , cheering about my low wages. Anyone can work for lower pay...it takes balls to hold the line. Time will tell.

1. If you worked under APA, you worked for American Airlines. If you have been around as long as it would be necessary to make the profile you provided truthful (and I think it is), you in all likelihood operated under a "B" scale that Crandall oversaw. Exactly how is that not letting the profession down?

2. You say that you worked while being represented by the I.B.T. (I assume you meant while being a pilot). I have yet to see them included in any conversations about "industry leading" wages for the airline profession (at least as far as pilots are concerned).

If my assumptions are wrong, then we are even. I have never gone to

company picnics and pep rallys , cheering about my low wages.

I, too make a living for my family. It's a dang good one too, if I may say so myself.




Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[Ty Webb]

Well said, JayDub.

I'm tired of these a-holes telling us how they're "protecting the profession" while their colleagues are stacking mulch at Home Depot.

I'm willing to accept less pay than the "legacy" carriers mostly were paying, in exchange for continuous employment and a rapid upgrade.

To each their own, but don't slam your competitors for your own company's problems. This isn;t Communism, Comrade.

 

[General Lee]

Here comes Ty again, trying to fit in. Thanks for your great comments again Ty. What? "don't let these A holes..." Duh!



Jetblue320,

Sorry about the mis-spelling. I am so used to spelling something easy like "Leo" and "Fred Reid" etc. I will get it right next time.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

Ty,

You need to chill out. Take some prozac. I re-read your post and I still have no clue what you are talking about.... You don't want higher wages? Would you rather the industry average be lower so that you could then finally say you are at the top? General Lee is zealous about getting the Delta furloughees back in their airplanes. Your predictions about "legacy" carriers are a bit premature - if United has not gone out of business yet despite SARS, 9/11 and a rough Chap. 11 filing, why should you expect Delta and the other majors to go under soon? The economy is improving - despite your negativity. Business passengers are slowly returning. Things are getting better...

Time to chill out a bit and reduce your hostile responses....

Wave to the Comair guys in Flint for us!

Cheers

 

[V2+10]

General Lee...

First things first. Over 1000 posts on this board alone! That is truly impressive. It might even be a record. You must be proud. I've gotta ask...when do you find the time to fly?!

Secondly, you really seem to have one great big blue thorn up your a$$. For the most part, many of your posts on this board are somewhat informative...as long as you are not talking about jetBlue that is. You really come across as having some sort of deep rooted vendetta for some reason. I'm not really sure why. Anyway...get over it.

It's obvious that you are very proud of your red, white, and blue (DL), and of course your lime green and white (also DL). You should be, and I would expect no less. DL has many fine folks, that I'm sure includes yourself, that care a great deal about the airline. However please remember that the folks over at B6 also have some very talented and dedicated individuals. They too care a great deal, and I'm sure have tremendous pride in what they do.

Stop throwing arrows. It's not very becoming.

V2

 

[Skank]

Beer me,
It "takes balls to hold the line"? Get a newspaper, catch up, and have another beer.

 

[Beerme]

Beer me,
It "takes balls to hold the line"? Get a newspaper, catch up, and have another beer.

I don't need a paper because most of my salary isn't paid in dreamland stock like you guys. I'll put my paycheck against yours ANY day. You guys are the ones who need to catch up in your race to the BOTTOM.

 

[Beerme]

Well said, JayDub.

I'm tired of these a-holes telling us how they're "protecting the profession" while their colleagues are stacking mulch at Home Depot.

My furloughed colleagues are there partly because of you guys low ambition and lack of ability to get on with a real airline...so your willing to work for peanuts just to say "Hey I'm a real airline pilot too!" They also have more character than you because they're not willing to whore themselves out.

I'm willing to accept less pay than the "legacy" carriers mostly were paying, in exchange for continuous employment and a rapid upgrade.

Typical "Me first attitude!"

To each their own, but don't slam your competitors for your own company's problems. This isn;t Communism, Comrade.

I wasn't slamming my competitors earlier...just saying that ALPA, or any other union would be better than none.

 

[jbucpt]

I wasn't slamming my competitors earlier...just saying that ALPA, or any other union would be better than none.

im sure the thousands who've been furloughed at TWA, UNITED, USAIR and DELTA are saying the exact same thing right now.


ALPA is a business. if you dont believe that, ask any TWA pilot what they think of your beloved union.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

You need to chill out. Take some prozac. I re-read your post and I still have no clue what you are talking about.... [/i]

Not too surprising.



You don't want higher wages? Would you rather the industry average be lower so that you could then finally say you are at the top?

Sorry, but my interests revolve around continuous employment, growth and improvement. I don't care what anyone else makes. I guess that is one of the many things that makes me different than you . . . . and that is just fine by me.

Your predictions about "legacy" carriers are a bit premature - if United has not gone out of business yet despite SARS, 9/11 and a rough Chap. 11 filing, why should you expect Delta and the other majors to go under soon?

You can't lose money indefinitely- that is a mathematical fact that even a First Grader can understand. Delta doesn't seem to get it . . . they operate flights at a loss to keep people off of our airplanes . . . yet we keep making money, and they keep losing money. Do you understand how a bond issue works? Because if you do, you'll understand what just happened when DAL tried to reissue their debt at a higher interest rate to avoid a short term crunch . . . not good. That's like you trying to refinance your house to lower your payment, and offering to do it at a much higher interest rate, and the bank saying, "sorry, you're not a good enough risk, even at a higher rate".

The economy is improving - despite your negativity. Business passengers are slowly returning. Things are getting better....

Uh-huh. Which is better for us, too. After all, when we can raise our rates, we make even more money . . . just in time for our new contract in 2005. But the days of high-dollar walk-up fares are not coming back, and that is what DAL's strategy of "preserving market share" is counting on. . . .

Wave to the Comair guys in Flint for us!

We'll do better than that . . . . We'll have a beer with them, and we'll both laugh at your ramblings and rantings. . . . like we do at most of the other places we coexist.

 

[General Lee]

TY,

Come on man, your cockiness is affecting your thought processes. Delta made an operating PROFIT in June, July, and AUGUST. You don't want to acknowledge that. And, the reason we are losing money is our current debt problem, which will be fixed when we all give some money up---still remaining the highest paid. To say that the revenue will never come back for us is ridiculous--and the fares have been increasing--which can only help us---(both of our airlines). We also have $3 billion in cash---$2.8 billion of which is unrestricted. That will easily get us through this rough patch. We also hear that we will be making an order for 100 seaters soon---and why would our management do that? Because you say they are stupid. They are much smarter than you are--for sure. I see it as pure jealousy from you---your hostility towards Delta, United, and your favorite--Midwest. Enjoy Flint and the Comair pilots.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[yaks]

colorado418

You seem to miss the point. I don't care to work for JB but the point is guys are still talking like any union is an option and it is not because you signed the contract. I am simply trying to point that out since no one seems to get it.

 

[jetblue320]

Union?

You seem to miss the point. I don't care to work for JB but the point is guys are still talking like any union is an option and it is not because you signed the contract. I am simply trying to point that out since no one seems to get it.

Now I am confused? Was someone talking about a union at jetBlue? I would bet money that if you took a vote now, just an informal one that is, that you would be hard pressed to find a dozen supporters of ALPA, or any of the others. I also would add that those dozen, if they do exist at all, are far tucked away in a closet and will remain there for quite some time. We have a strong group here and a smart one for sure. That does not mean that the ALPA supporters and members aren't smart, they just have different needs, thats all.

Take a test; stand in a group of jB folks and holler "Go ALPA" and check out the reaction, the looks on their faces, and listen to the nasty retorts. That would be a hoot. The simple fact is this; we don't need a union, whether "you" think we do or not. What "you" think does not matter, to us anyway. But, thanks for the friendly advice nevertheless.

(sorry for the quotation marks in lieu of underlining. I haven't mastered this vB coding yet and it turns out all funky)

Have a good un'

 

[skirt]

Re: Union?

Take a test; stand in a group of jB folks and holler "Go ALPA" and check out the reaction, the looks on their faces, and listen to the nasty retorts. That would be a hoot. The simple fact is this; we don't need a union, whether "you" think we do or not. What "you" think does not matter, to us anyway. But, thanks for the friendly advice nevertheless.

The main purpose of a union is to balance out managment. Unions are reactionary by nature. Thus, if there is nothing bad to balance out, and nothing to react to, a union would just be another layer of bureaucracy.

Most airlines, of course, have some elements that need to be balanced out, thus a union is important to the pilots. Jetblue is obviously not one of those airlines.

I say that perhaps the rest of the airline world will learn from the example that JetBlue management has set. However, the chances that the "traditional" management would learn from the Jetblue style, is probably about the same chance that the JetBlue pilots would want a union.

Skirt

 

[Ty Webb]

General, if you really are impressed that they claim to have made an "operating profit" during the best three months of the year, you really need to educate yourself about financial statements.

Otherwise, you continue running the risk of finding out the hard way, as many pilots much smarter than you have had to, at Branniff, Eastern, PAn Am, USAirways and UAL, to name a few.

You consistently insist that your management is much smarter than me . . . after all, I'm just a stupid pilot, right?

Well, I didn't turn the business side of my brain off when I started flying professionally, as you seem to have.

I had a pretty strong business background before I ever flew my first revenue flight- too much to go into in detail here, but I am still in the business world, and if things continue to go the way they have been for me, I will be launching a new endeavour here shortly; there are many of us who reagrd flying as an attractive part-time gig, so don;t assume that everyone here is a one-trick pony like yourself.

While we're at it; I flew for years for guys that are so successful that they hire guys just like your buddy Leo to manage their smaller operations . . . so. again, don;t think that every pilot is stupid, and every Delta department head intelligent . . . because it only tells me how little you know outside of the cockpit.