instrument instructor question

[cforst513]

is there such thing as an MEII? or if you have a multi add-on and are a CFII, does that automatically qualify you for teaching instruments in a ME airplane?

 

[kj6991]

No. If you have a CFII and just a regular MER, then your not capable of giving instrument instruction in a twin. to do this, you need an MEI.

 

[phishhman]

No. If you have a CFII and just a regular MER, then your not capable of giving instrument instruction in a twin. to do this, you need an MEI.

I respectfully disagree. I posed this question to inspectors at 4-5 FSDOs and got the same response (the same response as on the FAQ page of the Airman Certification division webpage). It is this: You CAN give instrument instruction in a twin with only a CFI/II and a Comm Multi (no MEI), as long as you aren't doing multi-specific training. As long as you aren't failing engines, you are fine. Just make sure you are teaching instrument procedures, not multi procedures. Once you start dealing with single-engine approaches and holding, you need an ME.

 

[phishhman]

is there such thing as an MEII? or if you have a multi add-on and are a CFII, does that automatically qualify you for teaching instruments in a ME airplane?

There is no such thing as an MEII. The CFII on your ticket will say "Certified Flight Instructor - Instrument Airplane. It doesn't differentiate between SE and ME.

 

[HMR]

FAR 61.195(b) & (c)

 

[minitour]

This one caused us about 2 months of discussion at the school and no one could come up with a hard answer.

The reg says (61.195):

(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

To me it says if you're doing it in a ME airplane, your CFI certificate has to say "Airplane Multiengine" on it...

-mini

 

[phishhman]

Then why, if 61.195 says that, does my instructor certificate say "Instrument - AIRPLANE?" Not, Instrument - Single Engine

 

[TDTURBO]

I agree with Minitour,



Becuase the regs further clarify the difference.


You can't put everything on a pilots license. just no room, I would go with what the reg say's.

 

[minitour]

The only really compelling argument I've heard towards the "yes you can" side was
"My certificate only says "Instrument Airplane", so what can I teach in?

That's a dilly of a pickle for the "no" argument eh?

I say just make it a no-brainer and get the MEI

-mini

 

[phishhman]

I say just make it a no-brainer and get the MEI

Best advice so far. I have my job, but still wish I had the MEI. Personal acheivment kinda thing.

 

[minitour]

Best advice so far. I have my job, but still wish I had the MEI. Personal acheivment kinda thing.

The more I hear people say that, the more I want to get it...

...kinda like the degree (here we go - this was a dumb comment) thing...do I need it? Not really...but for me I kinda like the idea of achieving it...

...more boxes to check...the same reason I got the AGI/IGI...kinda a "why not?" thing

-mini

 

[HMR]

I just renewed my CFI this weekend (did the whole thing in 5.5hrs online ) and this is one of the topics covered in the AOPA/JEPP material. According to their interpretation you can give ME instrument training if you're a CFII and have a Multi-engine rating on your commercial license. It's on page 4-6 paragraph 3 for those of you who have the Jepp material.

Look at 61.195(f): If the instrument training is for a certificate or rating in a ME aircraft, you need to have at least 5 hours PIC in that make and model (i.e. Beech Duchess doesn't count for a Seneca or Baron). I remember when one of my Duchess students bought a C340 he let me get 5hrs PIC in it so I could help him towards his commercial. I already had time in C414's, 421's, and 441's BUT none in a C340.

PS-get the MEI. It's soooo worth it.

 

[phishhman]

Here is portion of the FAQ from the FAA website and the link to the document is just above the copied text:

http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

It is located about 3/4 or more down the document under the 61.195 gray box.

QUESTION: What are the privileges held by a CFI - Instrument Airplane “only” (no single or multiengine rating) on his CFI with respect to instructing instrument procedures in a multi-engine airplane. He has multi-engine rating on his commercial certificate. Can he, while instructing instruments, simulate engine failure? Can he demonstrate VMC? Can he simulate engine failure during takeoff prior to 50% of VMC? Etc.



ANSWER: Ref. § 61.193(f) and § 61.195(f); Per § 61.193(f), a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to an Instrument‑Airplane rating. And per § 61.195(f), in pertinent part, states a flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane. These sections 61.193(f) and 61.195(f) are the only regulatory requirements that even remotely addresses your question.



Since training on the Vmc maneuver and procedure is not a task associated with the Instrument-Airplane rating, a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating may not give the training required for that maneuver and procedure.



Since the training on the simulating engine failure during takeoff prior to 50% of Vmc is not a task associated with the Instrument-Airplane rating, a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating may not give the training required for that maneuver and procedure.



However, there is no regulatory requirement in Part 61, other than § 61.193(f) and § 61.195(f) that apply. There is nothing that legally prohibits a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating and has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane per § 61.195(f) from giving the training required for the maneuver and procedure on “One engine inoperative during straight-and-level flight and turns (multiengine)” because the maneuver and procedure on “One engine inoperative during straight-and-level flight and turns (multiengine)” is a task associated with the Instrument‑Airplane rating.



Likewise, there is no regulatory requirement in Part 61, other than § 61.193(f) and § 61.195(f), that legally prohibits a person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating from giving the training required for the maneuver and procedure on “One engine inoperative—instrument approach (multiengine)” because the maneuver and procedure on “One engine inoperative—instrument approach (multiengine)” is a task associated with the Instrument‑Airplane rating.



Unfortunately, Part 61 and every other rule does not regulate judgment! I can't imagine an owner of an aircraft or an insurance company ever allowing rental of their multiengine airplane to a person who does not hold an airplane multiengine rating on his/her flight instructor certificate when that person intends to give training on engine inoperative maneuvers.



The following are the areas of operation and tasks that relate to an Instrument‑Airplane rating. A person who only holds a Flight Instructor-Instrument Airplane (CFII) rating may provide training on the following areas of operation and tasks that are associated with an Instrument-Airplane rating:



I. Preflight preparation

A. Weather information

B. Cross-country flight planning

II. Preflight procedures

A. Aircraft systems related to IFR operations

B. Aircraft flight instruments and navigation equipment

C. Instrument cockpit check

III. Air traffic control clearances and procedures

A. Air traffic control clearances

B. Compliance with departure, en route, and arrival procedures and clearances

C. Holding procedures

IV. Flight by reference to instruments

A. Straight-and-level flight

B. Change of airspeed

C. Constant airspeed climbs and descents

D. Rate climbs and descents

E. Timed turns to magnetic compass headings

F. Steep turns

G. Recovery from unusual flight attitudes

V. Navigation systems

Intercepting and tracking navigational systems and DME arcs

VI. Instrument approach procedures

A. Nonprecision instrument approach

B. Precision ILS instrument approach

C. Missed approach

D. Circling approach

E. Landing from a straight-in or circling approach

VII. Emergency operations

A. Loss of communications

B. One engine inoperative during straight-and-level flight and turns (multiengine)

C. One engine inoperative—instrument approach (multiengine)

D. Loss of gyro attitude and/or heading indicators

VIII. Postflight procedures

Checking instruments and equipment

{Q&A-457}

.........AND.........​

QUESTION: A person holds a Flight Instructor Certificate-Instrument Airplane only and wants to conduct an Instrument Proficiency Check in a multiengine land airplane (for example in a Cessna 310). The Instrument Proficiency Check will require the flight instructor to test the pilot on Emergency Operations - Loss of Communications, One engine inoperative during straight and level flight and turns (Multiengine), One engine inoperative-instrument approach (Multiengine), and Loss of Gyro Attitude and/or Heading Indicators.



What are flight instructor certificate and ratings, pilot certificate and ratings, and qualifications the person must have to be in compliance with § 61.195(b) and (c)? Does the flight instructor have to have logged 5 hours of PIC flight experience in the Cessna 310?



ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(b)(1) and (c) and (f); The person must hold at least the following:



Flight Instructor Certificate Commercial Pilot Certificate

Instrument-Airplane Airplane Multiengine Land


Instrument-Airplane



or



ATP Certificate

Airplane Multiengine Land




The person must have logged at least 5 hours PIC flight time in a Cessna 310.


{Q&A‑640}

 

[PC12Cowboy]

SO THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lmfao

 

[Ralgha]

The FAQ is wrong, it says itself that it's not infallibale. See post #6 by Mini for the appropriate verse from the regs.

The only really compelling argument I've heard towards the "yes you can" side was
"My certificate only says "Instrument Airplane", so what can I teach in?

Short answer: nothing. Long answer: You can teach ground, and also in simulators/FTDs.

Then why, if 61.195 says that, does my instructor certificate say "Instrument - AIRPLANE?" Not, Instrument - Single Engine

Look at your pilot certificate, it says the exact same thing. Does that mean that someone with an instrument rating but no multi-engine rating can fly a multi-engine airplane as long as they never look out the windows? Pretty silly isn't it?

 

[Goose Egg]

...kinda like the degree (here we go - this was a dumb comment) thing...do I need it? Not really...but for me I kinda like the idea of achieving it...

At the risk of dismembering an already dead and beaten horse, I think that's the best reason ever to get a degree.

-Goose

 

[JB74]

This one caused us about 2 months of discussion at the school and no one could come up with a hard answer.

The reg says (61.195):

(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

To me it says if you're doing it in a ME airplane, your CFI certificate has to say "Airplane Multiengine" on it...

-mini

Yes, but what if you aren't giving instruction for "the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR".

We had a discussion on this a while back and couldn't come up with an answer.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=36628

 

[Ralgha]

Yes, but what if you aren't giving instruction for "the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR".

We had a discussion on this a while back and couldn't come up with an answer.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=36628

Then you don't need an instrument instructor rating at all, but if it's going to be loggable instruction of any kind, toward a rating or not, then you have to have a CFI rating for that cat/class of airplane.

Anyone can "instruct" anyone else in the operation of an airplane, but if it's going to count as real instruction (logged, recognized by anyone), then it has to be done by an appropriately rated CFI.

 

[bobbysamd]

MEI Rating

The more I hear people say that, the more I want to get it...

...kinda like the degree (here we go - this was a dumb comment) thing...do I need it? Not really...but for me I kinda like the idea of achieving it...

...more boxes to check...the same reason I got the AGI/IGI...kinda a "why not?" thing

Exactly, for every reason you gave, and for the same reaons one needs a degree - that doors will open if you have it.

The MEI is really nothing more than a Commercial Multi ride out of the right seat. Of course, the rub is you need the fifteen hours of multi PIC pursuant to 14 CFR 61.185(j), but look at it this way. You have already logged X hours of multi PIC from your checkride. Figure that you will need three to five flights to get the maneuvers down from the right seat, including approaches, and to feel really comfortable in the airplane. That would be another five to six hours. So, yes, you'll have to fly off the rest before you can take the practicals, but not all of the hours up to the fifteen will be wasted.

I would do it if I were you.

 

[groundpointsix]

The reg says (61.195):

(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

To me it says if you're doing it in a ME airplane, your CFI certificate has to say "Airplane Multiengine" on it...

-mini

I disagree mini-

I have to have an instrument rating on my flight instructor certificate. That's covered by my CFI-I

I also have to have my pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating. That's my commercial certificate with a multi-engine rating.

No where (assuming you copied and pasted all the pertienent regulations because it's almost 1am and I'm too lazy to look for myself) does it say my flight instructor certificate has to have the appropriate category and class rating for the purpose of instrument instruction.

That said, I wouldn't go around giving instrument instruction in a twin just because I could. (Though the multi-time would certainly be appealing). There's the safety issue involved. Something goes wrong and suddenly you're having to work through a single-engine scenario with the student and oh wait, you're not an MEI. You can't legally teach the student how to deal with an engine out scenario and if you don't have an MEI but you're still flight instructing, chances are you don't have a heck of a lot of multi-time and experience yourself. (General you, not directed at you, Mini)

Also, what does the regulation say about requiring 5 PIC make and model for instruction in twins? Is it strictly limited to instruction for the multi-rating? Or is it instruction for any rating in a twin?

Legal? probably, so long as nothing goes wrong. Safe? no.

 

[Ralgha]

No where (assuming you copied and pasted all the pertienent regulations because it's almost 1am and I'm too lazy to look for myself) does it say my flight instructor certificate has to have the appropriate category and class rating for the purpose of instrument instruction.

I re-read Mini's post and he actually missed the nugget that really says it.

Here it is:

61.195
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

(2) If appropriate, a type rating.


And no, this bit is not referring to training for aircraft ratings, which is a popular misconception. The next paragraph (c), that Mini quoted, states in the body of the text, that it only applies to training for ratings and certificates. This paragraph has no such statement. It covers all flight training and is referring to aircraft ratings that the CFI is required to have.

 

[HMR]

61.195
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

(2) If appropriate, a type rating.

I disagree. If someone is going for their ME ticket, that's an "aircraft rating" and must be done by an MEI.

(from FAR 1.1)RATING-means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations.

If a ME rated pilot needs help with GPS approaches in his new Baron, he's not going for an "aircraft rating" or "training required for a certificate or rating". A CFII with a CMEL rating would be able to provide the training.

 

[nosehair]

If a ME rated pilot needs help with GPS approaches in his new Baron, he's not going for an "aircraft rating" or "training required for a certificate or rating". A CFII with a CMEL rating would be able to provide the training.

This person teaching the use of a GPS need not have any pilot or flight instructor certificate. The certificates mentioned in all of these certification regulations always pertain to training for certificates or ratings or recurrency or some such certification or regulatory required training.

GPS, aerobatics, mountain flying, P-51 flying, aaaaaaany other kind of flying instruction or training need not comply with aaaaaaaaany of these cerification rules. period. end of story.

 

[JediNein]

FAQ = FAA Policy

Here is portion of the FAQ from the FAA website and the link to the document is just above the copied text:

http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

It is located about 3/4 or more down the document under the 61.195 gray box.



{Q&A-457}


{Q&A‑640}

Those questions are there because they stopped an FAA investigation into my flight instruction. FAA policy is that in the FAQ. Many of the questions have been through Legal Counsel before being posted in the FAQ. If you do receive an inquiry from an ASI about something you did while following the published FAA policy document, Part 61 FAQ, refer the ASI to the FAQ. If that doesn't stop the inquiry, refer the ASI to his/her manager, and the manager to John Lynch. Mr. Lynch's numbers are on the FAQ.

If you are sitting back/jump seat instructing two rated pilots on the use of their GPS, no certificate or medical is required. If you are occupying a pilot seat, then the required certificates are Instrument Instructor-Airplane and either Commercial + appropriate ratings or ATP-appropriate ratings. Only the ATP+appropriate ratings work if the GPS instruction is part of one's duties in a part whatever operation.

Pay close attention to the FAQ answer to Question 640. If the Instrument Instructor-Airplane is occupying a pilot seat in a twin, the instructor must have 5 hours of PIC time in that twin, even for GPS instruction to rated pilots.

Don't like it? Change the FAQ answer before not complying with this policy. It is very expensive to be FAA Legal's test case before the NTSB, even with AOPA's legal insurance.

In the early portion of the FAQ document, there is a listing of where the FAQ stands in FAA guidance and policy documents in order. The FAQ is listed above Advisory Circulars.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[nosehair]

If you are sitting back/jump seat instructing two rated pilots on the use of their GPS, no certificate or medical is required. If you are occupying a pilot seat, then the required certificates are Instrument Instructor-Airplane and either Commercial + appropriate ratings

...so, you're saying...I can't hire Bill Gates to sit in my right seat of my personal airplane and teach me how to use his new "MegaFlite 9000"?

Of course I can.

The FAQ answer is to the regular everyday working instructor who is logging the time as PIC and therefore should have all the pertinent ratings - that is who the FAA can shove around 'cause they hold power over him with the threat of certificate action, and because he is logging PIC time.

Otherwise, if you are not acting in any way as a pilot/flight instructor, merely as an advisor with technical knowledge in a personal flight, the FAA has no power over you.

Having said that, I also know that if you do have a certificate, you may need to have lots of money for legal assistance to hold on to what is rightfully yours.

 

[groundpointsix]

I re-read Mini's post and he actually missed the nugget that really says it.
QUOTE]

I change my stance then. It would appear you cannot give instrument instruction in a twin without an MEI.

 

[JediNein]

I re-read Mini's post and he actually missed the nugget that really says it.
QUOTE]

I change my stance then. It would appear you cannot give instrument instruction in a twin without an MEI.

AOPA fought hard to prevent multiple instrument instructor certificates. They won. Instrument instructor applies to "airplane", not number of engines. They also fought to prevent two certificates needed for instrument instructing in twins.

Start at the beginning, read all the way through, and this time stop at Pphishhman's post.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[bender]

MidLifeFlyer over at Jetcareers posted an excellent reply to this same question about a year ago. It reads:

This is a question that comes up from time to time and the common wisdom has been that a CFI with only an "instrument airplane" rating, but no "airplane" rating is permitted to provide instrument training in an airplane, so long as he doesn't cross the line into teaching how to fly the airplane itself.

From Jeff's post, even John Lynch's Part 61 FAQ has taken this view, saying such things as a CFII with no MEI =can't= give training in one-engine failure during takeoff but =can= give instruction in single-engine operations under instrument conditions.

Finally, as a result of an inquiry by Ron Levy, an instructor at the University of Maryland and a regular contributor to Aviation Safety Magazine, the Eastern Region FAA legal counsel has started the process of putting that one to rest.

The ultimate answer is, no, a CFII with a commercial single and multi (No MEI) can =not= I give instrument instruction to a student in a Multi-engine aircraft who already has his private multi.

The response for the counsel is posted below. It takes a bit of wading to get through it since it goes off on a completely different question. The pertinent part appears in the final few paragraphs.

==============================
JAN 6 2004

Capt Ronald B. Levy
Director, Aviation Sciences Program
University of Maryland Eastern Shore
30806 University Boulevard South
Princess Anne, MD 21853-1299

Dear Capt. Levy:

This responds to your request for an interpretation of 14 CFR § 61.195 pertaining to the providing of instrument instruction. You have raised your disagreement with information contained in the FAA web site maintained by flight Standards (specifically, AFS-840) where answers are provided to frequently asked questions (FAQs). We apologize for the delay in providing this response to you and appreciate your patience.

Your question concerns the response given on the Flight Standards website (http://www1.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAO.doc) in “Q&A-249.” The question posed and the answer from AFS-840 are as follows:

QUESTION: The flight review requirements of § 61.56(a) requires [sic] 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training which includes a review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 and a review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate. If the person getting the flight review holds an Instrument-Airplane rating on his certificate does the review have to be given by a CFI-IA and include instrument procedures such as radial intercepts, approaches, etc.? Can a CFI-A (but no Instrument-Airplane rating on his CFI) give the flight review to the instrument rated pilot and can that CFI cover any instrument maneuvers such as those that might be given to a Private pilot under 61.107?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.193 and § 61.195(c); You're incorrectly mixing up the flight review requirements of § 61.56(c) with the Instrument Proficiency Check § 61.57(d). They are two separate requirements. But if you're asking whether a CFI-ASE only can administer the Instrument Proficiency Check of § 61.57(d), the answer is no. The flight instructor must hold a CFII-Airplane rating to administer the Instrument Proficiency Check of § 61.57(d). {Q&A-249}

We view, as the response acknowledges, the above dialogue as involving two distinct matters. The first concerns the requisite qualifications of the person conducting a flight review under 14 CFR § 61.56(c). Section 61.193(g) provides that a flight instructor, within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings, may conduct the flight review. Since maneuvers and procedures necessary for the flight are at the instructor's discretion, see 61.56(a)(2), they need not include instrument maneuvers and procedures. The flight review may be combined with an instrument proficiency check if warranted, see 61.56(h), in which case the instructor must hold the appropriate authorization, see 61.57(d)(2)(iv), 61.195. Accordingly, the person conducting the flight review need only have instructor-airplane privileges (CFI-A). Instrument instructor qualifications (instructor-instrument/airplane, or CFI-IA) are not necessary, even if maneuvers are performed “under the hood” since a flight review is not flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or type rating, see 61.195(c).

The second matter concerns the requisite qualifications of the person conducting the instrument proficiency examination under 14 CFR § 61.57(d). Since the proficiency check is an operation related to instrument flying, under 61.193(f) an instructor-instrument rating (CFI-IA) is needed, even though the proficiency check does not constitute training toward an instrument or type rating (see 61.195(d)).

Considering the context of the response, we do not read it as indicating that a CFI-A may give instrument training in flight without holding instrument authorization (CFI-IA) as per § 61.193. Flight training is defined as training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft (14 CFR § 61.1(b)(6)). Training can only be logged if provided by an instructor authorized to provide the specific training. Any instrument procedures conducted with a CFI-A during a flight review may be appropriate at the discretion of the instructor but do not qualify and may not be logged as training.

Your related question deals with the qualifications to provide instrument training corresponding to the category and class of the aircraft. As you point out, § 61.195(b) provides, “A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold: (1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and (2) if appropriate, a type rating.” You have indicated that some persons hold the belief that the possession of a CFI-IA authorizes the holder to provide instrument training without regard to the class rating held, a belief you do not share.

In construing § 61.195(b), we must rely on the plain language since it appears to be unambiguous and we are not aware of any agency-condoned practices that deviate. Section 61.195(b) refers specifically to category and class, as you have pointed out. The category of aircraft is airplane, but the class can consist of, for example, single engine, multiengine, land, and water (sea), as defined in 14 CFR 1.1. As provided in 61.195(b), to provide flight training, the instructor must bold both a pilot certificate and a flight instructor certificate with the category and class rating applicable to the training being provided. For example, an instructor must hold a pilot certificate and an instructor certificate, each with an airplane multiengine instrument rating, to give instrument training in a twin airplane. We do not construe Q&A-249 as indicating any other position.

I trust that this response satisfactorily answers your question. Should you need any further clarification, please contact Stephen Brice in this office at 718 553-3268.

Sincerely,

Loretta E. Alkalay

==============================
Scott Dennstaedt, a CFI and writer out of Maryland, followed up with John Lynch. Part of Lynch's reply to Scott:

==============================
Looking at § 61.195(c), I now believe my answer is wrong and Ms. Alkalay's answer is correct. Because, per § 61.195(c), it states: ". . . must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided."
==============================

Another answer of his that responds to a similar question posed:

Quote:

and why I am still confused as to why the FAA will issue a CFII with no aircraft rating on it at all.


​

The CFI-I with no aircraft rating can do instrument ground instruction and instrument training in a sim/FTD while still pursuing a flight instructor, rather than ground instructor path.

 

[ParrotheadPilot]

This is just a small tangent from the topic. I have been a CFI for 14 months (CFII for just a month) with 350 some odd hours of dual given. 61.195 (h) pertains only to first time CFI applicants. I can still give instruction to, and sign off at the appropriate time, an Instrument instructor applicant who already holds a CFI, correct? Since he already has his initial CFI, I don't believe I have to comply with the 24 month rule of holding a CFI certificate specified in 61.195 (h) (2) (iii). I assume I am able to give this instruction, right?

 

[minitour]

yep...thats for an initial flight instructor...so you're good to go

-mini